Matador Resources (MTDR) Q3 2025 earnings call transcript

Thank you, Jonathan. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for Matador's third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Some of the presenters today will reference certain non-GAAP financial measures regularly used by Matador Resources in measuring the company's financial performance. Reconciliations of such non-GAAP financial measures with the comparable financial measures calculated in accordance with GAAP are contained at the end of the company's earnings press release.

As a reminder, certain statements included in this morning's presentation may be forward-looking and reflect the company's current expectations or forecasts of future events based on the information that is now available. Actual results and future events could differ materially from those anticipated in such statements. Additional information concerning factors that could cause actual results to differ materially is contained in the company's earnings release and its most recent annual report on Form 10-K and any subsequent quarterly reports on Form 10-Q. Thank you. In addition to our earnings press release yesterday, I would like to remind everyone that you can find a slide presentation in connection with the third quarter 2025 earnings release under the investor relations tab on our website.

And with that, I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Joe Horan, our founder, chairman, and CEO. Joe?

Thank you, Mac. It's good to talk to everybody again. We think we've had a heck of a quarter and really pleased with our process in all of our different areas and the progress, and we're going to try to go around the table so you can hear directly from a lot of the people doing the actual work. But I think they've just done an outstanding job to date, and we're particularly excited on this quarter because any time you get to raise the dividend, you generally get a lot of addable goods from your shareholders, particularly the rank and file shareholders. But also pleased that recognized by the Dallas-Morning News as one of the larger companies in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

But the nicest part of the deal is that when you do the calculations, although 36 in size, we are number one in profit per employee. So give a lot of credit to the staff and their contributions and look forward to this report. And I know everybody is interested in knowing about capital spending and the thought processes behind that, but would tell you if I were faced with the same situation, we would still spend this money just as we did this year. I think the teams really worked together on that, and the executive committee of the board and the executive committee of the company all went through this and said not only about this quarter, but setting up next year is going to be one of the most fruitful years we have, We have lots of inventory, lots of cash flow, and good liquidity and room on our RBL.

So ask away. I might turn it over to Chris, our chief operating officer, just to describe some of the thought and process that we went through before deciding on this capital structure.

Chris Calvert, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer. Thank you for taking the time to be on the call. I would like to take a few minutes to highlight the positives of what was written in the release last night surrounding the capital program and focus on three things that I feel were probably maybe overlooked.

First, I would like to talk about the underlying economics related to the projects that came into this capital plan. Specifically, we mentioned 12 We will be able to highlight these wells specifically. These wells are in excess of 50% rate of return, million BOE wells, half of which of these fourth quarter tills we're going to be talking about are in Antelope Ridge, which is what we've talked about, some of the highest EURs not only in our company profile but also in the basement. So really strong projects associated with this capital plan. Secondly, I think it was somewhat overlooked or taken for granted the advantages and the efficiencies that have been made at the well cost level.

We initially came out in 2025 and guided to a midpoint of $880 per completed lateral foot. We've since revised that number down to $835 to $855 with a midpoint of $844. As we turn on, we expect to turn on roughly 1.2 million net lateral feet this year. That $30 to $45 savings equates to about $50 to $60 million in capital savings. Not only are we turning on extremely economic projects, we're doing it at a lower well cost level, so our initial investments are actually reduced, which in turn helped the economics of the wells. Thirdly, talking about the accelerated operations, I'd already spoken to the 12 wells that we accelerated into 2025.

We will also have a positive springboard looking into 2026 with 13.6 net wells that will be turned on at the beginning of January. And so as we look to that, that can provide extreme good – excuse me, positive momentum going into 2026 to achieve 2% to 5% organic growth rate of what we feel is somewhat of an inorganic growth rate in 2025.

And so I think when you consider those three things, you know, the economic underlying economic returns of the projects, the reduced cost at the well level, and the positive momentum leading into 2026, I think it leads to a very strong report and a positive outlook for 2026.

Yeah, and this is Rob, CFO. So I just wanted to pile on a little bit to what Chris is talking about. So even though I'm CFO today, I've been Chief Accounting Officer for the past 10 years, and I've been sitting here at this table with this management team, and we're really proud of what we've accomplished and created in a consistent manner over those past 10 years. And so I think, one, just to bring in an accounting metric, you know, we've gone from accumulated deficit as early as just three and a half years ago to, for the first time this quarter, over $3 billion in retained earnings. So that strong balance sheet, and I'll refer you, we have the slide deck out there, refer you to slide 11.

You know, I think it highlights the strength of our balance sheet with a 0.4 leverage ratio. Over the past year, we paid $670 million of our revolving debt and have about $2 billion in liquidity. So that allows us the flexibility to take advantage of opportunities like what Chris is just talking about. And so really excited about the well returns and the results that we've had so far this year. And like Chris said, feel like that sets us up really nicely for 2026. So at the same time, we're able to accomplish the other priorities that we have for free cash flow. As Joe mentioned, raised our dividend by 20% this quarter. Land spend, we continue to add on to our land position when we can find the accretive deals that we think make sense for us.

And we don't need to do anything, but we have a really good, strong inventory of greater than 50% returns, even at $50, as we mentioned in the release. And then the last kind of piece of that is the opportunistic share buyback. You know, the management team are buyers, and so the company is as well. But overall, I think we were able to hit all those priorities this quarter. Like Joe said, had an excellent quarter and really excited about how this sets us up for 2026.

Neil, thanks for the question. It's a good question, and I wish I could give you an easy always answer, but it's always a balance between those two areas and taking into account a number of other factors. It's just not a one variable question or one variable answer that is price of oil up or price of oil down, because we've often made more money in the bad times than, you know, in more robust times by taking on some projects when others were out the sideline. And a great example of that, if I don't, is going back in time to when we bought the Rodney Robinson lease and the Bonnie and those leases, they paid out at $20 a barrel during the COVID period, and that's one of the best deals we ever did.

And there's a time of worse oil pricing. And they've really kept giving during that time. And come forward, the same thing can be applied to times where the drilling rigs were stacking up. We've kept the same rigs for 10, 15 years or more and have found that that's sometimes where you have good rig hands, good pricing on your rigs, good pricing on your completion is a time to build that foundation. So we talk about an in-committee system, and it's pretty lively about what we want to do and who wants to do something slightly different. But we weigh, when you start out with just $270,000, as I did, to get to where we are today, you can be sure you've had lots of discussions and thoughts about how much to spend and where to spend.

And we kind of worked out a system among ourselves where we really try to stress test it and think about all the factors because there are other factors that weigh in on keeping the rig and keeping it going What's going to happen next year? What is the quality of the prospects? I'm pleased to say our geologists have really knocked it out of the park on some of their ideas on drilling here and there, as you all have seen. And so we've had steady rise in our engineering reports and in reserve studies that we do twice a year for the banks.

There's been steady growth there. And so the capital spending isn't something that we weigh by itself, but in connection with everything else. And the other capital requests from midstream and marketing, for example, is another area that they've come up with ideas and have pointed out, let's spend some money here on the midstream. And, of course, with the flow assurance, the added flow assurance that you get out of the basin has been a lifesaver for us at times when the rest of the basin was more or less shut down. So it's a multi-factor deal, and it's lively discussions. And I think I've got to give a lot of credit to all the guys on the team that are helping make these decisions.

I think they've been very wise. And as Rob pointed out, look what it's done for our retained earnings. Over the last three and a half years, we've moved from a deficit to over $3 billion in retained earnings. And so it's a pleasure to come back in light of those good decisions and say we're raising the dividend again, which in fact is now the fourth time in seven years.

And, you know, getting up there to 3.5% or more, and we plan to keep going in that direction as long as Chris and his team and Tom and his team and the midstream guys are all making these, I think, Very good capital decisions. So I think you can expect more of the same in the same manner, but we look at it more broadly than just looking at capital decisions based solely on oil price.

Yeah, and Neil, this is Chris Calvert again, and I think Joe hit it on the head and just to provide a little more color, I think, you know, when we look at specific project returns, you obviously, like Joe said, you have two factors, really multiple factors, But one that has really what we feel dislocated in the back half of this year, and that is the cost components to those returns. And so that cost dislocation can come from efficiencies, which we have proven to be extremely good at, to where whether it's simulfract, trimulfract, U-turns, the efficiency-driven cost dislocation has been the large player in 2025. Now, as we look into the back half of this year, we are able to take advantage of some more competitive service cost pricing.

And so when you have the confluence of efficiency and service cost reduction, you can really tip the scale on project economics. Now, I would also say that as we look forward, the tenet of what we have always operated on is optionality. And so when we look at this, it is October right now when we provide a more clear picture of 2026 in February. We have the ability to flex up, flex down, to revise this soft guide for 2026 if market conditions have changed. And so I think that is something that is extremely important to where if we see this cost dislocation somewhat converge back, we have the ability to make that change moving forward.

Thank you.

Chris Calvert, Yeah, Derek, this is Chris Calvert again. From an efficiency standpoint, I still think there's always going to be ground to be gained. We have talked a lot about completion operation, simul frac, trimul frac. 2025, we utilize those two processes on about 80, 85% of our wells. Trimul frac, there's still ground to be made to where we can get that number. Right now, it's about 40% for 2025. Look to boost that in 26. There's going to be logistical operations to where we can look to utilize money. Partnerships with San Mateo play a key part in this when it comes to treated, produced water and using recycled water for fracturing operations is going to be a large part of efficiency gains from a logistics perspective moving forward.

On the drilling side, extending laterals, we're excited that as we move into the fourth quarter, we're going to have some of our longest laterals today, 3.4 mile laterals at the AmeriDev assets. So something where we are extremely excited to bring some of that value forward. So from an efficiency standpoint, it's really across the board with completions, drilling, production, facilities, measurement that we look to push forward. Now, how does that play into 2026? Everybody on the call is very aware that this $50 commodity price world that we live in is relatively recent. You know, it's probably within the last 7 to 14 days. And so when we've looked at how we guide from a capital perspective, you know, if oil continues to be in this $50 region, I think there's potential to where we could improve upon a DNC cost per foot range that we guided 835 to 855 for the back half of this year.

So I think any sort of service cost reductions from a $50 oil commodity world, I think there's potentially grounds to improve upon. But I think from an efficiency standpoint, we started the year at 880. We're going to finish 835, 845, give or take. A large part of that is efficiencies. And so I think as we look into 2026, we look to improve upon that number. And hopefully, like we've said in the release, we'll turn in line a similar net lateral footage, but do it on a cheaper capital budget from a DNC side or more efficient capital budget from a DNC side. Thank you.

Yeah, hey, Leo, that is a great question. You know, I think as we look, and it will go back to Joe's answer, I think it was on Neil's first question. And, you know, I think that's a story that we unfold and we tell when we live in that world. You know, as we get closer to February, if commodity continues to slide, I think that's how we have to approach it. And like Joe said, it's done at a committee level here with all teams participating with board contribution. And it's really – it's an internal discussion.

However, I think as we look at that, the optionality that we maintain, whether it's at the rig level, I will now turn the call over to management for prepared remarks. The second thing I would say is that the drilling process is more active. The fact that we have reduced days on wells, that if you drill these wells faster, you save about $100,000 a day. That makes a big difference in looking at your rate of return. Each day you save, you improve what makes sense to drill and what particular rate of return. The drilling companies will use Patterson more often than anybody else, and Patterson is making improvements all the time on their equipment and their people.

You have that also creating the efficiency. Some drops in price can be replaced by efficiency gains, but also these wells are going to produce for 30 years. So to look at it just on the price of oil, what the price of oil is today, is narrow-minded because, again, I point you back to the Rodney Robinson wells and the other wells we drilled in the COVID period. You had low oil prices then, but they were paying out within a year on the strength of its production, the low well costs. So these other factors have to be not weighed once, and then you wait six months to drill the well. They're made close in time to when you spud, and you can always postpone, and you can just say, we're not going to do it now.

And if you have a long relationship with service companies, they'll work with you. They don't want to lose the business. So everybody works together on these things to do it at more or less optimal times. So the capital decision really isn't one that drives it so much.

For a company like us that has the capital resources, we do, $2 billion on our line of credit, you know, paid down debt to a small amount. It really is a larger question on that, is what efficiency gains, taking into account what efficiency gains, what these other costs are, cost- deprived. And I really commend Chris and his team for reducing that where your per foot cost is less now than it was considerably less, or in my mind, where you can save $60 million has to be taken into account on the decision. Imagine you go ahead with this capital spending now, thinking that, anticipating that with the efficiencies and the like, you're going to still come out ahead.

And they're going to use their best equipment and best hands, and they all know that reducing cost is their major objective, And ours is working for the long term, and we're not spending just to be spending, but we're spending fully intending to make money. And you can see that by the number of shares and participation by our employees in buying stock in the open period So I feel real comfortable that everybody taking things into account and pointing out the positive of drilling these wells or doing other capital events at the same time and coordinating it so it a balance between what the choices you have to drill or to acquire properties Or use them to keep building out your midstream, which has worked out to be a real good deal.

So we have a lot of opportunities, a lot of choices, and there's a lot of thought and effort put into it.

Yeah, Joe, this is Brian Willey, the Executive Vice President of Midstream. I think you're exactly right. You mentioned the midstream business. And just a couple items on that. That business is performing extremely well. We had a new processing record last quarter, 533 million cubic feet per day of natural gas was processed, and we continue to have that success as we get into the fourth quarter. It's been a great start to the fourth quarter.

And not only is the business performing well, but we've talked a lot about the different options with that part, with that business, because we don't believe that the value of the midstream is fully reflected in Matador share price. And so we continue to explore the options, and we can be patient there. We don't necessarily have to have that money at Matador, so we can be patient and make sure it's the right opportunity and the right transaction for Matador shareholders and provide the most value. And maybe the last one I'd make is just, Matador also has some wholly owned assets that they retain and they continue to operate. And those are assets that we acquired in the advanced acquisition and the emerative acquisition.

It's about 250 miles of pipeline altogether, great assets. And those assets are about $30 to $40 million this year in EBITDA is what we expect. And we also next year expected to be between $40 and $50 million for those assets. So those are great assets that we could drop down eventually down to San Mateo with the right situation. And, you know, it's a great business at San Mateo and the midstream business because it's a fee-based business.

It's something that, you know, despite the ups and downs of commodity prices, we continue to get the fees from our customers, including Matador, but also including third parties. You know, it's been a great year for third parties. We've had a new customer on the oil side, and we continue to expand the relationships with our existing customers and repeat customers as we move forward. And so the midstream business continues to perform very well, and that relationship and partnership with Matador, the team there, and team here at San Mateo, this really is a benefit that I think is hard to replicate and very unique for Matador and its shareholders.

This is Greg Krug, EBP of Marketing and Midstream Strategy. I just wanted to pile on a little bit as far as the midstream business is concerned. As Brian mentioned, as far as it is a fee-based business and not commodity, so these lower commodity prices do not have an effect on the fees that we get on San Mateo. Also, I wanted to point out that as far as flow assurances, we parked on that every time we have an opportunity to do so It's because it is so important to Matador and to our third-party customers.

And we feel like we're a step above some of the other third-party midstream companies just for the simple reason, I mean, we're tied to those with some of our midstream, our wells at Matador, those other companies, and they're just not as reliable as we are. We feel more comfortable with going to the San Mateo and Mata-dored-owned systems. So I think that's a huge factor for us as well.

And this is Brian Willey. One other thing to add, slide 12 actually shows an outline of our assets. You can see the 650 miles of pipeline, the 720 million cubic feet per day of processing. And I think just generally, if you just look at the slides generally, if somebody took a minute to look at the slides, You'd be able to see what a great job Matador is doing all together and what a fantastic job that we're doing. And so, you know, I think if you haven't taken time to look at the slides, I think it's a great opportunity to be able to look at those and get a great summary of the progress that we are making in Matador.

And so, you know, the slide 12 has those Matador wholly owned assets. You can see those in blue on the map. But even all the different slides, they just really summarize the great progress that we're making.

Greg, do you want to add to that?

Yes, I do want to say, have a shout out to some of our third party offloads that we have, one of which is, I want to congratulate MPLX for their acquisition of Northwind. We're going to have a long relationship with MPLX, and we're looking forward to working with them further on the Northwind asset, and the fact that's going to be a solution for us for our sour gas and CO2.

And I might add, as far as Enterprise is concerned as well, you know, with their acquisition opinion, we've got quite a bit of gas dedicated to them as well, and we look forward to that.

We're also doing quite a bit of business with Target, and so we're looking forward to doing additional business with them, And we've got a great relationship with all those folks.

I hope that answers your question. But if you need more, we, again, invite everybody on the call to come see us. We'll devote more time to you and to see our operation because there's aspects of our operation, such as our MassCom room, which is monitoring all of our drilling activity, That has added to the efficiency gains that's led us to lower prices, which has opened up the door to more capital decisions and adds to the long-term nature of what we're trying to establish in New Mexico.

Yeah, hey, no, I'll start from the Mata Dore side of things, and then Brian can also talk about it from the San Mateo side. But, you know, next year there is going to be, you know, we're looking at roughly $40 million to $50 million investment in Mata Dore's wholly owned midstream business. And a lot of that has to do with the build-out of our water-gathering system, both in the AmeriDev area and in our Hat Mesa kind of ranger area. And so, you know, because that investment is really talked to, speaks to the integrated nature of the upstream business with the midstream business, and to be able to provide an increased percentage of produced water for, you know, for these intense hydraulic fracturing operations.

Chris talked about some of the efficiency gains that we've seen in that realm, and I think it is a great example of us working together to increase the amount of produced water. It lowers use for hydraulic fracturing operations, which reduces our lease operating expenses, and it reduces the capital spend on the frac side. And so, yeah, there is an investment there to increase our water handling capabilities.

Hey, John, I'll start if Greg and Anton want to pile in here. That's great. But yeah, so in Q4, as we highlighted in the release, we did elect to curtail some wells for a few weeks during this long-haul pipeline maintenance period. And in doing so, we avoided paying those kind of deep negative Waha pricing. I do think it speaks to Matador and our ability to be nimble and make sure that we have that lever as an option to pull in this sort of environment. And, you know, we saved a lot of money in doing so and really just deferred that production to, you know, where wall-haul prices are positive as they are today. And then, you know, on your question about these long-haul pipes that have been already, you know, decided to be funded for building, You've got Hugh Brinson that's coming on later this year, and Blackcomb and GCF expansion, all of which will add roughly four BCF towards the latter part of this year.

And so we do think that the longer-term view, and really, I mean, just 2026, that the capacity issues, if you call them, in the basin for Waha will be relieved by those pipelines.

Yeah, the other thing, Glenn, is to mention weather still plays a role in the gas pipeline business. And so you hit October each year or end of September, you're faced with this risk. So you want to be sure you have the balance sheet that you can work through those periods. And the second thing is that solutions are coming that the industry midstream industry is very responsive to this and finding ways out and I pleased to report today Anton you have a better handle but price of gas selling price is now This is Anton Langland, Executive Vice President of Marketing.

Joe is correct. Cash has gotten a little bit stronger out there at Waha, and we anticipated some of this, And so we went out and put in hedges for 2026, where we have a big hedge position to protect downside risk on Waha. As we know, all these pipelines are coming online in 2026. We'll have GCX expansion, mid-26 for half a BCF. Blackcomb will come on for 2.5 BCF. And Hugh Brinson will come on at 1.5 BCF, and that's all going to happen in 2026, which should alleviate some of this pressure, downward pressure on Waha prices going forward When you start looking at the end of 26 and 27 should be a great time for wild hot production and our gas and give us a lot more opportunity to produce more of our gassy wells that we have in inventory that we haven't filled yet because of these lower gas prices.

But in 27, 28, we'll have a lot of opportunity to fill a lot of gassier benches out there.

Hey, Zach. This is Tom Ellison, our EVP for Reservoir Engineering. Going into 2026, we have a very strong program. We expect the same or better BO per foot in 2026 as we have seen in 2025. Coupled with the commentary about these longer laterals, we expect to see lateral length increase approximately 10% going into 2026. So that should be really positive for the total EURs, really positive for the capital efficiencies, lowering the well costs. These are very strong projects, as we've talked about with rate of returns over 50%. And these are 1.1, 1.2 million BOE wells. These are very strong wells that are very durable at a wide variety of lower oil and gas prices. I think that the team should be commended for all the hard work and cooperation they've put together.

I think it's quite the opportunity to bring these wells forward. As Chris mentioned, things have gone better than expected operationally. The team's coordinating with Midstream to have all the permits, the pipelines, all the drilling and execution, all the completions, all the The wealth turned online on time and under budget I think has really been something that we're proud of and we expect to see that going forward.

I think it'll continue on beyond 2026. I think that a lot of these really high quality Wolf Camp and Bone String Wells have been pushed further north. And as, you know, one example of that is our Avalon well that we've highlighted in the release at Gavilon. That's a well that has produced over 280,000 barrels of oil in the first 12 months of life, and it's already paid out.

It will continue to pay out many more times into the future. So I think our inventory is very strong, and we're very, very excited for the wells we're putting up on the board for this year.

Brian Willink, Executive Vice President of Midstream. That partnership we have with Matador is critical to us. It's about 70 to 80 percent of our revenues come from Matador, and so as Matador grows, oftentimes that leads to growth in San Mateo as well, just depending on where the growth is. So I think we'll have more to talk specifically about that, of course, next year when we lay out our plan, but that's a great partnership that we have with Matador, And it's something that as you look at the capital expenditures for next year, Glenn mentioned earlier the Matador-owned capital expenditures.

I think we had mentioned in the release the 8 to 12 percent capital expenditure increase. And approximately 90 to 100 million of that is midstream, whether that's San Mateo and our share of the 51 percent or whether that's Matador-owned. And so, you know, we have some really great projects on tap for next year to continue to grow the company and continue to expand the business. We support Matador.

Thank you very much, and thank you, everybody, for spending the time in here with us. And again, I repeat, if you want more information or have more questions, you'll find us successful. Rob will be happy to take your questions and get answers for you. And we try to pride. I didn't come up through private equity, but came up through friends and relatives. And with friends and relatives, they have a higher standard for communication and being accessible, and we want to maintain that.

You know, a lot of people, as I said, I think one of the issues, just to confront it directly, is, quote, capital spending. Are we outspending our cash flow? And I think the answer is clearly not. If you don't believe the accounting that we've grown from a deficit to over $3 billion, having made good decisions, then look at it this way. I've never sold a share of stock in Matador, and we have a whole group of executives that haven't either.

And as far as the employees go, we have an employee share purchase plan with over 95% participation. So the people that know the company best, we're buyers basically, not sellers. And we can see the future coming up, and we don't look upon it. We look more upon the quality of the rock and the quality of the operations as opposed to what the oil price per barrel is, because you can have a very high oil price in the capital decisions. They don't have good operations, or something else can affect it, that they're spending too much on their bank debt and are in a bad position. But over 40 years, remember, we started with just that $270,000, so over 40 years we've grown to this point, and it's from having a good decision-making process.

Not that we've never made a bad decision, but not many of them, and made a whole lot more in times of oil price being shaken for one reason or another, and I've pointed out some of those instances. But if you keep going and be that much more selective in your decisions, you can build an organization, and there are more good people that become available, and it's worked to our advantage. It's not that I welcome $50 oil for a sustained period, but it's not fatal either if you've maintained your balance sheet all through time and your bank relationships. You just have to be a little more careful.

The midstream has helped because it's a fee-based and it gives us further balance. So as we say around here, we like our chances, and I think if you come to visit and meet the staff, you'll say, these are people I could trust with my, I won't say it's your life savings, but you could trust your investment because we've come a long way. You've got a 40-year history to look at, and we're pretty optimistic, and we see the opportunities growing for us rather than being reduced. And I think this period going into the fourth quarter, frankly, we've never looked so good with more options than we had before and more targets of opportunity for 2026. So we're excited, but I do think that as helpful as these questions are on these kind of calls, it's even better to come see us, have breakfast or lunch with us, or even dinner, and meet the people behind these capital decisions and see that, hey, they're reasonable people, they're professional, And they wouldn't be spending the money on this well or that well if they didn't have a high degree of trust and confidence in it.

And I think that's what you get for investing in Matador. We do have a sheet that says, Why Matador?

It's at the back of the earnings release. And I really encourage everybody to look through those exhibits, And I think they tell the story in five to ten minutes of why Matador. And an original investor in first Matador was in at $0.85, and we sold for $18.95. And an original shareholder in this Matador is in for $3.56. So it's come a long way, and we like our chances. And better today than ever. And I think we thank the board for working with us. We think they're distinguished and it's a good process. We rank up there. Van can tell you more where we rank in New Mexico, but it's a top five, top ten type of company.

So start out with you have on page four how little we started with back in the early 90s to where we are today. So please give it serious consideration, and if you want more information, we'll hear it. And if you want a personal, in-person discussion, if that would give you greater comfort, just give Mac a call, and he'll schedule it, and we'll enjoy meeting you. We would like to wish we could meet every one of our shareholders so they would have that personal relationship. So thank you very much for your attention today, and come see us. We like our chances, and we feel very comfortable that next year is going to be a good year for us one way or the other.

Thank you.