Pegasystems (PEGA) Q3 2024 earnings call transcript

Thank you so much, Krista. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Pega Systems Q3 2024 earnings call. Before we begin, I would like to read our safe harbor statement. Certain statements contained in this presentation may be construed as forward-looking statements as defined in the private securities litigation or form act of 1995. The words, expects, anticipates, intends, plans, believes, will, could, should, estimates may, forecast and guidance or variations of such words and other similar expressions identify forward-looking statements, which speak only as of the date the statement was made and are based on current expectations and assumptions.

Because such statements deal with future events, they are subject to various risks and uncertainties, actual results for fiscal year 2024 and beyond, could differ materially from the company's current expectations. Factors that could cause the company's results to differ materially from those expressed in forward-looking statements are contained in the company's press release, announcing its Q3 2024 results, and in the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including its annual report on Form 10K for the year ended December 31st, 2023, and other recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Investors are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such forward-looking statements, and there are no assurances that the matters contained in such statements will be achieved. Although subsequent events may cause our view to change, except as required by applicable law, we do not undertake and specifically disclaim any obligation to publicly update or revise these forward-looking statements, whether it's the result of new information, future events or otherwise.

And with that, I turn the call over to Alan Treffler, founder and CEO of PEGA Systems.

Thank you, Peter. And thanks to all who are joining today's call, I'm really pleased with our performance for the first nine months of 2024. The team is executing extraordinarily well, and I'm optimistic about the momentum that's evident in our results. The energy is palpable across the company, and our sales teams are fired out. It's great to see that we're driving profitable and balanced growth across industries and geographies while delivering transformational innovation.

The enormous excitement we're seeing from our AI offerings, especially PEGA Gen AI Blueprint, is fundamentally changing the way that we engage with prospects and clients. Our distinctive AI approach is showing clients how they can accelerate their digital transformation and move to become autonomous enterprise.

Blueprint is now part of virtually every client and prospect discussion. It continues to inspire our prospects, clients and partners, with possibilities, and they're continuing to evolve. It has profoundly changed how we engage, sell, deliver, and is helping us work to get in with clients more deeply and across bigger pieces of their business. The number of new blueprints continues to grow dramatically. It's helping us identify opportunities to accelerate growth and creating additional momentum for PEGA Cloud, which is growing at a faster rate than even we predicted, and can we'll discuss in more detail.

The tremendous engagement from clients and partners is also accelerating innovation. As together, we're continuously discovering new ways to leverage and to improve blueprints. For example, we've recently added support from many additional languages. It added a new collaboration feature that summarizes who is making changes to the blueprints to help our clients collaborate among themselves. As a reminder, you can experience Blueprint for free by going to PEGA. com and searching on Blueprint.

But I think perhaps most importantly, this is unique to PEGA, and I don't think it can be easily if ever replicated by competitors would have the major rework of what they do. This isn't just our opinion. We're getting that feedback from clients, partners, and industry experts, who are also saying that Blueprint is one of the most compelling examples of actually putting AI to work that they see, something I heard last week when I was in Amia and met with some of our largest clients.

This changes how we operate, and I think gives us a distinct competitive advantage and an approach to monetization of AI. There's not dependent on product skills, but rather reflective of building and growing strategic long-term client relationships. For example, recently one of our large multinational financial services clients asked us to help improve their team's quote, digital savviness. So we have organized more than 40 Blueprint exploration sessions over four days, giving you about 800 employees hands-on experience with Blueprint.

The team was so impressed, they'd asked us to help programmatically put Blueprint into practice and included citizen developer training to broaden the people who can get access to this AI. Our European client that provides healthcare services has given Blueprint to nurses, caregivers, and others from across 11 hospital networks. So can they can directly design and rethink their workflows that they need to do better service for their citizens?

To date, they've created more than 150 Blueprints. And recently, our team used Blueprint to identify and accelerate potential pipeline in new areas of business with a long-term insurance client. This level of excitement about Blueprint and the client engagement that's driving is candidly unprecedented in Texas history and has the entire company in our partner's stuff.

I want to talk a few minutes about what we're hearing from clients and how we're responding. Clients are focused more than ever on digital transformation.

It's good on their tips and it's become an imperative that they see as critical for their competitive survival. And in talking with them and thinking about what we're doing now and into the new year, we believe we're uniquely positioned to help our clients with this journey in three ways.

First, support for rethinking and replacing legacy applications. It's common for our clients to have lists of the applications they hate, the ones they want to replace. And there's increased urgency to modernize these apps so they can both leverage AI and also move to the cloud, which many of these are not able to do. We see a huge opportunity to help them to rethink and replace this ever-growing technical debt.

Blueprint deploys AI to eliminate the drag of legacy applications. And it connects the whole process of rethinking the app with the internet and with AI in a way that really helps drive both the right way to do things and faster outcomes. Clients can import information about applications and then use Blueprint to update, enhance, or completely reimagine their workflows.

And then, execute quickly and effectively. We'll continue to enhance our offerings to support clients in these efforts and we'll be introducing new capabilities this year and next. I've been speaking with partners and clients about this over the past few weeks. And the response to this legacy transformation vision has been universally positive. The power of this approach is clients aren't just lifting and shifting applications.

Blueprint allows them to rethink their workflows while moving them on to a modern cloud platform, which brings me to the second advantage we believe we have. We believe we are an ideal modern application platform for the types of business that involve workflows and involve getting work done. Recently, Gartner noted that quote, overlapping automation capabilities are driving market consolidation, unquote, and quote, prompting enterprise application leaders to search for platforms that can cater to the end-to-end needs of a wide range of automation use cases.

They actually introduced a new concept to address this. They call it boat, business orchestration and automation technologies. This describes what we also see in the market, and it's really the convergence of robotic process automation, so these are RPA, business process automation, BPA or BPM, and low-code application platforms. Gartner describes boat as a class of software technologies that allow enterprises to automate and orchestrate end-to-end business processes while connecting multiple enterprise systems of records through any applicable integration records.

Pega, from much of its history, has been saying almost the exact same thing, and this is exactly how we think about our center out business architecture, bringing together the process automation, orchestration, and using AI to have decisioning that helps make the right decisions at every moment and making it work across front-end channels and across data sources. We believe we're electrically positioned to be the business orchestration and automation technologies platform for our clients, and that platform sets our clients up for the third advantage BPA delivers, a path to what we refer to as the autonomous enterprise, our mission to change the way the world builds software, and that starts with building the software around the outcomes that clients want to deliver.

Helps organizations maximize the potential for automation and AI. We have spoken before about this approach to building outcomes and workflows in a way that is center out. This is radically different from others who still build their software around user screens or around database structures, and we believe that those approaches are fundamentally ill-suited to a world that expects ubiquitous self-service and a genetic automation.

Center out is the right architecture for AI agents because it's built around outcomes. It's built not around the screens, not around the database tables, but it's had to round what the organization is trying to deliver, regardless of the screen it uses, regardless of the database that it has to go to get the information. And it allows us to define things in ways that we can make really good decisions, we can drive optimized outcomes, and do it across the channels and the back ends.

And the approach not only allows for automation, it also helps ensure governance with agents following defined best practices in predictable ways. And in ways that will be able to pull in a human for assistance, one appropriate. However, doesn't assume that it's a human driven. We've already seen the fruits of this approach, you know, our email and message agents, which have automatically processed hundreds of millions of emails and messages for our clients, all while adhering to best practices and regulations and reliable outcomes.

And petagenet by knowledge body, an agent that can retrieve and synthesize information from an enterprise knowledge base, is delivering answers with attributions that employees can trust. And petagenet I coach, an agent that delivers the structuring data in a petagen case to provide real time guidance for users to help ensure that they're working in the most effective way of what the system's not able to handle everything completely automatically.

So our upcoming release, Packet Infinity 24-2, contains enhancements to coach knowledge body and our data virtualization architecture and more. You'll see that news next week.

Now, there's nothing I love better than spending time with clients. While I was in Europe last week, I met with dozens of senior contacts and partners and with some of our most strategic customers. Those meetings were frankly all incredibly positive and in every interaction, we talked about how blueprint and armored approach to AI could accelerate their digital transfer mission act initiatives.

And I would tell you, I see that our customers and our partners are seeing it. And it's terrific to hear how they're using our software to make positive tangible impacts on their organizations.

So in summary, I'm very pleased with how we performed the first nine months of the year. And I would tell you that the strong profitable growth has been coupled with levels of innovation in the way that we bring both intelligent automation and intelligent decisioning to market of that I think put us with an innovation agenda that is top shelf.

Head of Gen AI blueprint continues to generate excitement and has fundamentally changed how we engage prospects, clients and partners in a very positive way. And I believe our approach to AI really focused on changing the heart of the business of our clients that focusing on business outcomes rather than just coding faster is markedly different from what we see out there in the market. And I believe we can help our clients and prospects to understand that. And it's gonna provide a competitive advantage and support long-term client relationships.

We will continue to deliver tangible and I believe groundbreaking solutions focused on providing real value in a strategic and architectural manner. And given that our approach and architecturally need, I think we have a tremendous long-term opportunity and engine for growth.

With that, let me turn this over to Kent.

Thanks, Alan. It's fantastic to see our team consistently deliver solid quarters of profitable growth for the third time this year. Clearly we have momentum and we're executing very well. Annual contract value of 14% in constant currency and 16% as reported year over year. Our ACD growth acceleration was powered by Pegatloud which grew 26% year over year in constant currency.

Pegatloud represents the vast majority of our net new ACV in the quarter and for the year. Our team is selling Pegatlouds our primary offering which is a pretty significant change from our approach just several years ago. Overall, our ACV growth acceleration in Q3 was powered by the successful execution of our strategy. As you may recall, in 2023, we shifted our go-to-market strategy to focus on our target organization model by minimizing distractions and having our sales teams laser focused on the right organizations. We have greatly improved sales efficiency and effectiveness.

This change coupled with our latest Jedi innovation has enabled us to significantly increase clients' engagement. Pegatg and AI Blueprints is having a profound impact on the way our sellers and partners engage with our clients and prospects around the world. It also enables us to expand our addressable market with existing and new clients by helping them to modernize legacy systems that were not in scope before, but are in scope now. Last week, for example, I attended Pegatg a 7th annual government and power conference in Washington, DC.

It was great to see government agencies at the event like Social Security Administration, the Department of Justice, the IRS, and Veterans Affairs. Each agency is using Pegat to build modern platforms that will allow them to deliver more effectively on their missions. With Pegatg and AI Blueprints and our new FedRAMP high certification, Pegat has never been in a better position to help government organizations transform employee and constituent experience.

We get asked all the time, what's the significance of AI? And I'll tell you that our conversations with clients have massively changed. Now we lead with AI. We talk with potential new logos and clients about our JNI Blueprint innovation. It's gonna help them rethink differently about digital transformation and accelerate those thinking. We also talk with them about how we bring our best practices together with the best practices from the internet in a way that creates productivity.

We're starting to see early signs that our unique approach to JNI is positively impacting the enclosure rates reduced time, the value increased expansion rates, and improving our partner relationships. It's clearly that Blueprint activity is translating into ACB growth acceleration, and it provides us with a fantastic opportunity to accelerate Pegat cloud migration as well.

Moving on to cash flow. Through the first three quarters of 2024, we nearly doubled cash flow from operations and free cash flow. We generated $250 million of cash flow from operations and $246 million of free cash flow. Both record amounts for the first nine months of the year. Q3 2024 was our eighth consecutive quarter of positive free cash flow after completing our subscription transition.

My view is that free cash flow is really the true thing that matters in terms of creating shareholder value, the amount of free cash flow, the consistency of free cash flow, and actually more importantly, the growth of free cash flow. So if you start there, if you believe that premise, then you go upstream from that. What's the most important metric that is leading, if the leading indicator to drive expanded cash flow? It's the amount of billings that you have with your clients, then how fast those billings are growing. That is annual contract value. So ACB represents subscription billings, which ties to cash collection, which ties to free cash flow generation.

Now that we've completed our subscription transition, our free cash flow trajectory, as I mentioned, is well anchored. Then we have ample liquidity to pay off our convert that is due in March. Also, you'll likely notice that we started buying back shares in Q3 and continued that activity through the end of the quarter, spending about $12 million on share buybacks.

The board also increased an authorized repurchase about an additional $250 million. We're evolving our rule 40 mindset to deliver profitable growth, increase free cash flow per share, which is the right strategic balance of capital allocation and key to delivering increase shareholder value over time. As I look forward, we are in a fantastic position and have an amazing opportunity to help our clients digitally transform our business and migrate to Pega Cloud. You've heard us recently mention our commitment to dedicated leadership around Pega Cloud adoption.

And that's why we named Frank Guerrero as our chief cloud officer in the third quarter. As I explained during our investor session in June, we aspire to exceed $2 billion in ACV in the next few years. Today, Pega Cloud ACV is less than 50% of our total ACV. That means there's a significant opportunity for us to accelerate Pega Cloud.

I've received feedback from many of you that it's helpful when I share some thoughts about modeling. So I'm gonna continue to do that. First, Q4, 2023 was a very strong net new ACV quarter for us. So we do face a tougher compare in the final quarter of the year. That said, we're still confident that we will finish the year strong. And as targeted in the past, we will be a rule 40 company as we complete 2024.

As a reminder, we define the rule 40 as the combination of our ACV growth and our free cash flow of margin adjusted for items such as restructuring charges.

Second, we continue to experience success at moving clients to Pega Cloud. If that trend gains momentum, we expect term license revenue and maintenance revenue to decline over time as that revenue moves to Pega Cloud. Currently, we anticipate declines in maintenance and subscription revenue for the full year of 2024 versus 2023. That said, I wanna remind everybody that the accounting for term licenses is not as predictable as the accounting for a SaaS business. So there can be some variability in those numbers.

Last, as you're modeling Pega Cloud revenue, I wanna point out that there is typically a delay of a few quarters in between the time that net new Pega Cloud ACV is added and when it translates into Pega Cloud revenue.

In conclusion, we're focused on closing the year strong. We've managed the business very well in 2024 with accelerating ACV growth and record free cash flow and cash flow from operations. I'm really happy with our team's performance. I also wanna congratulate our sales team for a great first nine months of 2024 and best of luck finishing strong in the fourth quarter. Specifically, our client-facing teams around the world have done an amazing job with our go-to-market transformation. We're clearly executing very well. I'll also add that the energy as we enter Q4s as high as it's been in Pega for many years. And with that operator, please open the call for questions.

Yeah, I think Blueprint has lifted all boats, is the way that I would describe it. And I think it's done that because when clients see it and internalize, I would allow them to think differently about their business. Even if we were already talking to them, so they didn't get the advantages of Blueprint early in the sales cycle, it I think really helps convince them that Pega is an organization that they should count on and continue to grow with.

Yeah, we've also begun to show off another Blueprint that we are going to be releasing around the end of the year for our decisioning capabilities, which are going to bring a lot of the same AI powered analytics to helping our customers do next best action, which is a very, very important part of our business. So I think Blueprint is just changing the overall attitude and that has, it's not like I can tease apart the pieces that are related to Blueprint because it is so incredibly pervasive and just change the engagement.

Yeah, so see this can, so a couple things. One, we are seeing accelerated ACV growth in every region, the US, Amia, and APJ. So I'll start there.

Not every vertical is accelerating at the same level so that when you get into verticals at geographies, naturally, you're reducing the sample size. So, but I would say across the globe, geographies are all growing, they're all accelerating.

The second part of that is, where are we getting it from? Are we getting it from new logos? Are we getting it from new workflows? Are we getting it from existing clients, increasing the volume of, it's really across the board. We've had net new logo growth in Q3. We had expansion of new workflows with existing clients. We've had actually expansion of existing workflows with new clients. We've actually had a little bit of the start of some migrations to take a cloud. I mean, we're still very early in the migrations, but we have had some. So, I think it's just that across the board, new logos, existing logos, migrations, and across the world. So, I really couldn't point to just one thing and say it's North American healthcare, just making that up.

It's not something that that is not the dynamic, which is incredibly encouraging, which means that blueprint and the way we're engaged with our clients universally driving acceleration in our business. When you get to look at the next two to five years, you say, what might this do to change the business? This is a transformation opportunity for Pega to re-accelerate our business back up to levels that we haven't seen for probably three to five years.

So, I think, and there's no reason that even those growth rates are something that could be a ceiling. We have to execute, of course, and we are going to be dependent on not only our existing clients, but actually exploring new logos strategically in our target org model, new logos. So, great opportunity for us. In terms of this year, which is the last part of your question, certainly the energy, as I mentioned, in Q4 is high.

Also, the Q4 activity that we have is very high, but also, there's always a lot of work to do in a Q4. So, I think that we're certainly feeling good about where we are, but we're not in the habit of re-guiding, so I think what we want to do is we want to beat our targets. I mean, that's a fundamental DNA that we want to have, but we've got to execute, and we've got work to do. And Q4 is by far the toughest compared with the year. Yeah, Q4 is always the tough quarter. The last point I would make is, in any scenario where our growth would exceed our model for 2024. That is not a reguy of just making this clarification.

It's probably not likely to lead to any change in our cashflow modeling, because the billings happen toward the end of the year. It would give us, however, upside for free cashflow next year in 2025. I just want to make that very clear, so for anyone that's thinking about the relationship between the two of those.

So, I think that a big part of the example I would give would be the idea of helping organizations replace some of their legacy systems in a different way. Historically, we used to talk about going into an organization and using the Power Packer workflow and the Power Packer decisioning to wrap and renew their existing systems. And, of course, it gets built on a meaningful business, but what we've now realized with some of these new capabilities and with what AI can do, we can more directly target the systems that our customers just want to kill.

You have all of these organizations, particularly if they try to move to the cloud and sometimes find that as many as two thirds of their applications are incapable of being moved to the cloud in their common form. They want to rethink what they've got, but they don't really want to start over. That's daunting. We can use Blueprint, and we can use some of the new capabilities that we continue to add to be able to really target replacement in a way that moves these systems onto a cloud-native platform, moves them into a thoroughly modern architecture and lets them both get into the cloud, but also just run way more effectively and unwalk the data that's buried in some of these applications that they just can't get to.

So I think that this legacy transformation approach is one that you're going to see us doubling down on as we enter next year, and it is pretty exciting. Relative to ramping up investment, we've kind of come to enjoy the reality of generating cash and spending our money perhaps more carefully than I might have done earlier in our career. So we're open to doing this by investments, but I've really become a believer that candidly, when we really focus ourselves, we actually increase our growth rate. And so we're going to be cautious about opening an opportunity too broadly, too fast.

Though to be candid, there's big opportunities here and they're not going to go away in a year or three. They're going to be here for quite some time.

Yeah, so customers are really hungry for automation. There's a lot of confusion out there. I mean, you only have to read the press releases of the players of these spaces to realize how much noise there continues to be in these markets. And people are trying to figure out, you have to step back for a second. You go back to my tech world keynote, I talked about the three forms of AI that we see as transformative transforming organizations.

And customers tell me that what they heard makes sense to them. But the noise of the market doesn't match this. I mean, that we talk about statistical AI, how we use numbers in machine learning to figure out next best actions. If something's been done for 15 years, it's something we've done for 15 years. And it's enormously powerful. And it's not obviated by language models. Like, thought of general intelligence, I think is some cool ideas.

But, you know, numbers matter. And language models don't do so great with numbers. So, you know, that's the first form of AI statistical. The second is what I would describe as AI features.

And we've got several dozen of them. Customers will buy some from us. They'll buy some from the accelerators and the magic agents that you hear people marketing and putting out there. And that's fine. So our customers are building some themselves. And there's enthusiasm for those. But there's not the belief that those are fundamentally changing in organizations, business. The thing that we're most excited about in the Blueprint represents, and I think we are uniquely positioned here, is this idea of AI transformation.

The idea that you use AI to better understand what your current applications are and then use AI to challenge a lot of the assumptions about how an app should be built. And then to actually help execute that. You know, we're advantaged. I've got a lot about Blueprint. But the reality is, is that Blueprint itself is not truly the core. The core is the peg architecture, the model to the architecture.

The nose has to really automate with AI principles and with high levels of channel independence. The Blue Bridge just happens to perfectly fit into. So I think that a lot of confusion about AI still, but more when customers see what we're able to do, and when they put their hands on, like I've talked about how many customers are touching this now, we get a really positive reaction.

Jake, one thing I'll add is just a sanity check for everybody here. We've got a war in Eastern Europe that's been going on for two and a half years. We have a conflict in the Middle East. It certainly doesn't look like it's gonna end any time in the next few months. We've got an election in 12 days, and we still don't have inflation in check. So I do think there is still nervousness in the market. That said, I think that clients are committed to digital transformation, but I do think there are a lot of market events that are gonna cause clients to still be a little bit timid in some of their bigger decisions. And so just a sanity check on that.

There's a lot of stuff going on out there.

Sure, look, depends on something that I think has been visible for a long time because it's part of how we thought about the problem. Believes that you really wanna have definitions of how a business works, that it's important to be able to map the processes where the data comes from, where it's gonna end up, and there are some people in the Agentic world who say just turn it all over to a language model, it's gonna be so smart, it's gonna figure everything out, it'll be a chain of consciousness and come up with the magic answers.

We think that may be true in some cases, and certainly it's good for entertainment, but whether our customers' businesses are gonna wanna run that way, I don't believe regulated businesses are gonna be able to run that way. I think a lot of organizations take comfort in using the AI to define the processes, which for example, the blueprint does, as opposed to just saying, hey, I'm gonna call the agent and it's gonna figure it out, and I'm not gonna be exactly sure how I could explain that, but it's pretty smart. So we have a, what I would describe as a managed approach, and the great news is this lets the organization achieve greater reliability, because if you've got hundreds of thousands of people doing something, you turn that increasingly to automation, I think you wanna know what they're doing, and the workflow type approach that is at the heart of Pega fits that model going forward.

Have you said that, those workflows are intrinsically agentic, they in effect make it so you know the steps, know how to do certain things, and can apply the AI to fill gaps, to figure out where fields should go, figure out how to best answer or ask a question, and that's where we've married the agentic world with the workflow world in a way that I think fits perfectly, and I believe customers seeing that. I equate a lot of the agents talk now to some of the early talk in AI in general, where it candidly I think led to a lot of confusion.

Having said that, we're all bought in, we've had agents for years, that are doing things like parsing and responding automatically to emails, to skimming a lot, to working as a chatbot. We just don't want to build the organization around the assumption that there are humans in the loop, we wanna build around the work itself, what are the products that are companies offering, what are the services they're offering, how do we capture those in workflows, and then use people who are needed, use the AI who are needed, use the interfaces. And that is exactly what the center of architecture is, which I'm sure many have heard me talk about now for three years, four years.

Well, so just one clarification there, Rishi. Last year, the reason why Q4 was stronger for us is that we actually had a lot of our business activity that just kind of delayed and slipped into the back end of the year, and that didn't happen this year. So just from the standpoint of Pega, our difficult prepare is really just a timing compare of the way the linearity, the way the shape of our growth lumped last year versus the shape of the growth this year. In terms of the specific question you asked, and Alan can chime in, you know, his opinion, I don't put a lot of business decisions around whether people try to use up budget from one year or another year, it happens.

I think that there is a potential I've read some of the same articles that you have as well, but I don't think we're not running our business assuming that happens or doesn't happen. We have a very healthy pipeline, we have very strong engagement with our clients, and if clients then choose to use a budget in Q4, naturally we'll get our fair share of that. But I don't think we have a strong modeling opinion about whether there's a flush or there isn't a flush.

And I'm a little skeptical, I think there's a lot of CEOs out there who have directed their procurement and the IT arms to try to save money to be bought. I mean, let's face it, that mood is very prevalent if you take a look at what's going on. So I'm certainly not counting on any sort of, we are flushing going on, it's gonna be meaningful.

So I think that we've seen a couple go live, we see have a bunch more in progress. The blueprints have candidly influenced every sale I can see in terms of certainly in the last six, eight weeks. We don't have a single sales guy who can't do a blueprint with a client. And we've gone from a sales person we're trying to have a bunch of meetings and then try to bring a solution to the consultant in to maybe the third or fourth meeting to do a client specific demo.

That whole engagement model is already meaningfully changed. And they now do the demo in the first meeting almost always and it's client specific because that's what blueprint gives you. The effect this has on business is projects that were already underway, some of them blueprints are coming in a little too late to really be able to help them. So the stuff that was going live in Q3, we'll see some meaningfully I think are live in Q4 in the first half of next year.

Yeah, so, Pendulum, not much, we've had some migrations, but not a material amount of them. They will become bigger in 2025 and 26. So you're absolutely right there. Maintenance will continue to decline and probably at a steeper pace in terms of that maintenance decline. But the maintenance decline that will happen at Pega can happen in two ways. It could be that someone moves off of a, historically moved off a perpetual license arrangement into a term license arrangement, which means that the proportion of what they do, the business that they do with Pega is less maintenance and another one could be a migration to Pega Cloud. So those are just to clarify, those are two ways maintenance could draw.

But there haven't been, we've got some momentum on migrations. We've had some through the year for sure, but it's not a material component of our incremental ACV growth. But you're going to, to answer the second part of your question, maintenance is going to decline, no doubt about it. You know, it is steeper pace than previous years.

Yeah.

So I do think that clients were happy to see that that erroneous verdict got reversed. And so, but you know, what I tell you is, I think that people, particularly of late, have been largely expecting that. You know, that's why you didn't see, you know, a $2 billion change in market cap, right? I mean, that tells you that everybody has sort of discounted it. I think as it dragged on and on and went through the appeal process, discounted to a meaningful amount. Obviously, it has some positive impact.

And I'll also tell you that, you know, these large buying organizations, all it takes is one group to sort of worry and they can slow things down. So I do think it's not, it's going to sort of return us to a more traditional cycle, whereas we had had to go through sort of more sometimes rounds of questions on occasion with this.

But yeah, we're happy to see that we've gotten through that reversal stage, but God knows we expected it.

Yeah, I think just to add to that, 2022 was a very distracting year for our teams into 23, where just every, you know, many, many clients wouldn't know what is this thing, what is happening, what's in that. I think once the actual audio was public on the appeal from the fall of 2023, enough clients heard that that they kind of went, okay, we understand now the significant error as the appellate court called it, right, that happened. And then it was a waiting game to figure out where they landed in terms of the actual appeal. So I do think incrementally over the last few years, things have gotten better from what was, quite frankly, a very difficult time in 22, because not only were clients hearing it, there was quite a lot of marketing done around the actual verdict as well against Pega.

And so we had to really fight some things on multiple fronts there. Now that the appellate court has clearly pointed out what we have said since May 9th of 2022, which was really just a series of errors that actually caused this. It certainly made those conversations much better, which made it easier for our sales teams, which make our sales teams be able to spend more time selling. So there's certainly a wind there in our favor.

I think there's a lot of enthusiasm for the partners. We just had a couple of partner meetings and we do have partners very, very interested in figuring out how they can leverage Blueprint. We've actually had partners create, I think the number is more than 70 now, Blueprints that we've loaded in for their use, that are private to that, that they can use with their customers to try to convince them that they've got some good extra IP to be able to add into it. And so that's actually very encouraging to see more than a dozen partners look more than 70 Blueprints into our system.

I also think, Dan, just to point out one other thing, we are engagement with AWS and Google Cloud is really accelerating as well. We view them both as very, very strong and important partners for us, as we continue to move to peg a cloud, as we continue to accelerate our growth rate with Blueprints in the center of that and actually really playing a much bigger role in digital transformation. So they are becoming much bigger kind of market partners for us as opposed to technical partners.

Absolutely. I mean, there's two reasons why they're just that much more important. One, we've got three quarters of a billion dollars of engagement with our clients that are not on peg a cloud and naturally the hyperscalers care about that. And then those clients that we have, by the way, are their clients as well. So that's one, Dan. The second one is as we continue to accelerate our growth, leveraging Blueprint faster digital transformation, we're going to put those workloads on our partners, but on the hyperscaler partners that we have. So we're just in a whole different world of actually the opportunity for us mutually to target organizations where we have common customers.

And so that's for us as a very strategic differentiator. And we think has led actually, quite frankly, to some of our growth this year, and also will lead to growth in the future. And the work we've been doing to be able to help clients take out their legacy applications is of great interest to the hyperscalers, because they're good customers who have done buys, who have made commitments.

But a lot of the apps in those customers aren't able to move because, God forbid, they're running on an IBM mainframe or Lotus Notes. I was just talking to a customer literally yesterday about part of their Lotus Notes estate. And they need to rethink and replace those, but that enables them now to rethink and replace them on the cloud, which is what our whole pitch is here with the legacy transformation that I was talking about.

Thanks, yeah.

I would attribute them to two things, honestly. And I don't think either of them or the demand environment. I would attribute it to our selling transformation that we made, and quite frankly, Alan mentioned something that scarcity is a powerful tool to use for focus, right? And the fact that we actually really focused on driving the right people on the right org and the right level of density has really helped us a lot. And the second one is quite frankly, I think I wouldn't minimize the impact of the appeal and helping us with a much more positive engagement with our clients. I mean, I think the reality is that it certainly was not hurtful for the appeal to actually get reversed.

But I think it's largely the target org transformation.

Mark, I think the market is pretty much the same as what it was a year ago. Yeah, honestly, I also think that the product portfolio we have, you know, when I think of what we've been able to put together in the last 12, 18 months, I think it is candidly just more appealing and more effective at gaining the interest of our clients. So I would agree it's not the demand environment, which I think is still a lot of power out looks up there.

So FedRAP high wouldn't have impacted our business at all because that requires pipeline time to build. And the U. S. public sector was not an outside contributor to our growth. I mean, it's a healthy business, but our growth was not on the backs of a two, three public sector in the U. S. deal. We, I've mentioned this before, we don't see that type of hockey stick in our business around one particular quarter in the public sector. It's active, but it's not something that, you know, drives our business in one quarter.

Thanks Mark.

Yeah, so there is, you know, the inputs to Blueprint are customers already doing. We want to use the AI to figure out the best we can from documentation or other things we get about the customer. You know, we've already implemented the ability to import BPMN. Our process mining capability can feed into that because it can actually generate the BPMN that we can then feed into Blueprint. So I do think there's really good alignment between the various piece parts all tied into this legacy transformation elements.

What you're going to see as focusing on going forward with both our 24 with two release and the work that we do early next year is a lot more work to make us beautifully compatible with clients, open architecture databases and what's sometimes referred to as cloud and native databases environments, which by the way, the hyperscalers love that sort of stuff.

And we have things that have been released or being released and are being built that will just continue to push on that between now and peg a world, which is a really big moment for us.

No, not nothing noticeable. Yeah, it was really good, Val, before it was, it was a, I would say it was an unsexy quarter in terms of where we got our growth from. It was pretty much everywhere.

So the, if you think what happens with Salesforce, given their recent announcements and the changes to their go-to market, I still think we've got a terrific message that says, hey, you know, you might stick Salesforce into your front end, but unless you want 100% of your business logged into Salesforce, which, you know, pretty, I think, risky thing for a lot of businesses to undertake, you really need to be able to go across channels and go across back end, you know, which you've, you know, heard me talk about for a long time. I think that fits perfectly with our AI strategy.

And I think customers are seeing it. You know, it's exciting to me to go visit a client and have them talk to me about Centerec. And so I think we are quite advantaged in terms of our architecture and in terms of the things that we've done literally for decades coming together to be leveraged by AI. And that's why Blueprint is exciting. It's not a skill, it's really, hey, this takes the entire Pega staff and repositions it in a way that's tremendously more dynamic, tremendously easier to implement.

And I think it's gonna open up lots of new opportunities to that, that's what we're chasing with all of this. So I think we're really quite advantaged when it comes to an AI and an overall transformation story.

Well, thank you everybody for listening. We're very excited about where we are and what we see going on. I think it's going to be an interesting end of year and we're gonna work to set ourselves up for a terrific 45. Thank you very much everyone.