EchoStar (ECHO) Q2 2026 earnings call transcript

Thank you. You may begin. Good afternoon. I'm here with Charlie Ergen, Paul Orvin, our CFO, and John Sarenga, our COO. We will begin with opening remarks from Charlie, followed by a question and answer session. We ask that any participant producing a report not identify other participants or their firms in such reports. We also do not allow audio recordings. All statements we make during this call, other than statements of historical fact, constitute forward-looking statements made pursuant to the safe harbor provided by the Securities Reform Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements involve known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors that could cause our actual results to be materially different from historical results and for many future results expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements.

For a list of those factors and risks, please refer to our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2025, our 10-Q filed today, and our subsequent filings made with the SEC. This information and supplement materials relating to today's call will be posted on our investor relations website. All cautionary statements we make during the call should be understood as being applicable to any forward-looking statements we make wherever they appear. You should carefully consider the risk described in our reports and should not place any undue reliance on any forward-looking statements. We assume no responsibility for updating any forward-looking statements. We refer to OIBDA and free cash flow during this call, the comparable gap measure, and a reconciliation for OIBDA is presented in our earnings release and in the case of free cash flow in our Form 10-Q as filed today with the SEC.

With that, I'll turn it over to Charlie. Thank you, Jeff. We're just going to take questions, but before we take questions, I just want to give a few opening comments.

As you all know, August 1st, we had a $1.5 billion bond maturity for Hughes Corporation. We had discussions with the bondholders but weren't able to come up with a workable solution, so we filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy this morning for Hughes. I want to make just a couple points on that.

One is, this filing is strictly limited to the Hughes entities. It does not include EchoStar Corporation or other non-Hugh subsidiaries or even Hughes International entities. Second, we have first day motions this afternoon in front of the court to ensure that Hughes continues to operate a normal course of business. And that means we're paying our employees, we're delivering for customers and channel partners as usual, and we expect to fulfill all ongoing forward commitments to our vendors.

And third, we don't know how long bankruptcy will take before we can emerge restructured. As a result of the litigation that is expected in this, we won't take questions on Hughes, but I would refer you in our – you are referred in a press release. There's a link to our filing that I think lays out, you know, chapter and verse, the details there.

So with that, we'll take questions.

Yeah, thanks, Dave, for the question. I think the way – first of all, you will see in the 10K, 10Q, I guess, that we did increase the authorization. The board didn't decrease the authorization from up to $5 billion of buyback. So it's obviously one of the things that we look at based on our capital structure. It's one of the things we look at.

I would say first and foremost, we look at investing in our business. So we'd look at our existing businesses to invest in and the opportunities there. And then, you know, EchoStar Capital now under the leadership of Tom Cullen. we look at other things we can look at, which could include our own company. And then after that, if we can't find anything there, then you get work all the way down to paying dividends. So we've been a good steward of capital for a lot of years, and I hope we'll continue to do that.

Appreciate that, Charlie.

Yeah, Brent, no, really no change other than it's probably a little bit more efficient since we're kind of under one roof and probably move a little bit faster just because we're like literally, you know, in the same area in the company. And obviously Tom comes with a wealth of experience in the long term in the industry, not just at EchoStar.

Yeah, Brent, those are all good questions. I guess the way I try to answer the question is we still are of mind that the cost of finalizing the termination of our wireless network and our tax liability is in that $5 to $7 billion range.

We don't know the answer on where we're going to be there. It could be a little higher, a little lower than that. A, obviously, there's litigation on the termination of the network.

And obviously, we don't know where SpaceX will be in the future, but we know that there's things like 1033 exchanges and things that can reduce tax liability. So we're in that $5 to $7 billion range in terms of what we think it's going to be, but that includes our wireless network termination.

But, you know, we're not – again, we're a good steward of capital, so we're looking at everything and how we can make sure that, you know, we take care of capital the best way.

Well, I can't get into the actual contracts, but I talk about boost in general. One is we haven't, as managers, we haven't cracked the code on how to be successful to the level we'd like to in the wireless business. In general, we've treaded water for four years now. We were slightly cash positive in the quarter, but we did lose subscribers. But having said that the we we have new leadership with Bob Rychinsky who joined us four or five months ago and he certainly taken a fresh approach We think we have some strategic initiatives going forward that will reinvigorate that part of our business. In general, all of our businesses have to run at a profit long term.

and they have to have a right to exist because, you know, everybody's only as good as their last quarter. So we like the business. We're disappointed that we haven't done better in it. It's a great challenge for us. But it's strategically important for us, and we do have a fair amount of flexibility contractually to whether it be M&A or partnering with people, and, you know, we'll continue to see if we can figure out how to be productive there.

Yeah. We do have some restrictions on buying back stock in our bond indentures. So I don't know how public those are, but we do have some restrictions. The way I would look, the way I'd look at Echostar, or the way I look at it, or I think the way we look at it is, that having closed the AT&T transaction, right, and putting $2.4 billion into an escrow for the closing down of our network that is mandated by the FCC. and put that $2.4 billion aside.

We have about, when you look at the total company, we have about $14 or $15 billion in cash. We have that $5 to $7 billion liability, in our opinion, going forward, which includes the $2.4 billion. And then we still have a – we have Boost, which we haven't shown we can – it's certainly a valuable company or potentially a valuable company.

And we have our traditional video business was contingent to throw off cash. And then in addition to that, we have 261.8 million shares of SpaceX. and obviously you can figure out at least publicly what the value of that is. And then we have spectrum, still a solid spectrum position of AWS 3, CBRS, 700 megahertz, et cetera, that you could take a stab at in terms of valuation. And we have excluding Hughes, which is obviously in the restructuring process today and which will ultimately get sorted out. We have about $5 billion of cash, I mean of debt, and we have another almost $8 billion of debt that SpaceX transaction will pay at closing.

And then we have $1.09 billion of convert debt that at this point is in the money with convert. So you end up with a company that's cash rich, not much debt. But we're pretty easy to look at the value and then obviously the conglomerate discount that people give to the marketplace or the lack of confidence in management or whatever the discount rate is. That's how you value the company. And then going forward, we're going to, as we always have, look for opportunity and manage the business in a respectable fashion.

This year is interesting because we're – unfortunately, a lot of focus is really just cleaning up the network shutdown and now cleaning some of that up through the courts just because we had no other choice but to do that. And then getting in the position to focus our company on moving forward with all the opportunities that we have.

And then in addition to that, that pivot to an asset, a cash-rich company, there's a pivot. Every company is going through the pivot to AI and how it affects your business. And, you know, our company wasn't built for AI. We didn't know anything about it years ago. And so we have to pivot. And in a funny sort of way, there's a restructuring going on within EchoStar to say, how do we take advantage of that paradigm shift of how AI changes businesses and the way businesses operate? And I think a lot of our success in the future will be dependent on how well we do with that. And it's certainly way too early to tell how we're going to do with that.

But culturally, our team's excited about it and very focused on it.

It would be, Walt, it would be way premature to speculate on that. I mean, I think that you can see our stocking horse bid, I think, was potentially $300 million, somewhat less than that because of cash on hand. So you can hypothesize that there's not, at least in our opinion, there's not a lot of liquidation value there. So I think it's relatively immaterial in the scheme of things when you look at the other assets that we have.

I think, and Walt, if I cut you off there, I think the more important thing, the way I would look at it, is we're a unique company in the sense that we have mobility through Boost. You know, we have a lot of broadband relationships, not the least of which is through SpaceX, and we have video. And so we know connectivity pretty well, and connectivity is going to take a lot of different shapes for customers, but most customers are going to need Wi-Fi, broadband, whether that be through a cable or satellite, maybe some people with both.

People still have video needs, and we're uniquely positioned to do that. And because it looks to me like in terms of an actual network, you know, the Big Three network have done a good job of building a pretty big moat around their businesses. And we kind of play with one foot in that business as well. So the real key is the knowledge base we have, the fact that we play in a lot of different places in the connectivity field, you know, I think will be helpful for us going forward. You know, we have to prove it, of course.

Yeah. The auction rules aren't out for the CBAN auction, but we would anticipate that we would not be prevented from participating And we participated I think in every auction since the first one Actually the first one was a satellite auction we participated but the first terrestrial one we did not participate in but we participated in ones after that. So I don't think we'll be prevented. Whether it would make any sense for us to participate, given where we are, that's a whole different question, And we certainly haven't analyzed that. Secondary market transactions.

If there was something that we thought was strategic, important that would enhance the value of our company, we would look at it.

No, I think I would say it a different way. I think, obviously, investing in our core businesses today where we have opportunities.

But secondarily, the second thing we'd look at is the opportunities that Hamid has already identified. He identified quite a few and quite a few relationships, some of which we already had. So I think we would look at returns there. And then as part of that, as a subset of that, you would look at your own company, right? It just depends on how you would evaluate those opportunities. But we're – and I guess I'd say a cautionary note. We're going to be patient. I mean, the market is pretty frothy.

It – you know, we're not going to rush out to do something and overpay for something just because we have money. So, you know, it's a it's I can only tell you from playing poker, you want you can have you can win a few big hands and you're still going to bet the same way. Right. It's still I'm playing the odds and and it's pretty frothy right now. So, you know, we probably are more cautious. We probably be more cautious than some.

Okay. I'll take the first part, and then Jeff will take the second part. We're cautious about everything. That includes EchoStar. We're just cautious on the marketplace in terms of a lot of our value is based on SpaceX. So we're just cautious on the – we're not pessimistic. We're just cautious because things are at historical highs on almost every metric. And so that's all. That may be stupid. That may be smart. We don't know.

In terms of spectrum, so in September, as you know, the SEC, the chairman confirmed that we admit our buildouts. We admit our commitments. So that is sort of the last official statement from the FCC. As you mentioned, we have filed a waiver for our remaining spectrum licenses to sell those for fewer value, you know, in exchange for an extension of, you know, building out the network. We're awaiting that. It makes sense now that we don't have a network any longer for that to be granted. So we hope the FCC will roll on that in the near term.

Yeah, I'll take that last one, the timeline of DISH Wireless first. I think our confirmation hearing, it's a confirmation hearing, is set for October 13th. So I think our expectation today is that this wireless bankruptcy could be wrapped up in the fourth quarter this year.

Now I'll go back to your first question, buybacks. I mean, we do have some restrictions on buyback. And, you know, to the extent we ever wanted to buy something back, we'd look at whether that was even possible. And if it wasn't, what you would do. But, you know, we look at everything, right?

The converts, it's my understanding that we don't have any restrictions on buying converts. But whether that would make sense for us is a whole other question.

Change in investing, I mean, it's done a lot of work on that side. and again a lot of things that he put in place he's kind of handed off to Tom and I don't see a change in that strategy other than you know other than because we're all kind of at one place now we're all kind of daily conversations so just communication is a little bit better I think we look at our core businesses first, and Tom is heavily involved in that. So he had additional things going on that Hamid didn't have going on. Now that's all combined, and so the priorities are still pretty much the same. Look at our business. Look at other opportunities.

And if we can't find anything, use our capital, whether it be stock buybacks or dividends. So, you know, good management is going to find opportunity, you know, but because things are frothy, I think opportunities are a little bit harder because there's a lot of cash in the sidelines and some pretty interesting valuations out there.

Oh, DirecTV. You know, I've always said it's inevitable to put the companies together. We've probably squandered some opportunity to do that because obviously the synergies, there's still synergies there, but they're obviously not as high as they would have been before. But I think we would look at it. We have no preconceived notions if there was a willingness on DirecTV's part to do something with the companies and what that might look like. Buyer, seller, joint, we have no preconceived notions of that. The question would be, is there something at the right value?

We think we playing a little bit longer game at DISH We are investing in that business We investing in how we approach the customer and the customer relationships In a short term that kind of a negative to EBITDA right You know, you could have a shorter term approach and make those numbers go up. And, you know, we have to look at it from a holistic perspective and say, we know the business well, we know the industry well.

And I think we have pretty good ideas of valuations. If there was something where people could agree on valuations or agree on incentives going forward, then that would be, when I say invest in our businesses, that's one of those things where you would invest in it. But if somebody made the right offer, it's not a critical. component of what we have to have going forward. But we like that business.

Yeah. I mean, yes, you're missing the fact that, A, good management gets themselves in position to have flexibility. So obviously a larger buyback doesn't, requires to buy anything back, but should the marketplace be displaced or we see an opportunity because we don't have other opportunities, then we're positioned to do something if we want to. I think also missing that I know you've got to write reports and you've got to analyze things, but again, this is a company that's got a 46-year track record of managing capital and running a relatively successful business despite massive changes sometimes in our future over those 46 years. So I don't think we fit into the normal box of professional management, multiple of EBITDA, come to conferences and talk about how great you're going to do and get to the end of the quarter and do unhealthy long-term things to make a particular number.

I mean, we think about it long-term. We think about growing value for our shareholders long-term, and we try to make the best decisions. We're making decisions that an owner would make. an owner that believes in building long-term value, and it doesn't fit into the normal box of what you might do. So as a result of that, I'm not trying to be evasive. We don't know what we'll do with our capital, other than we believe that with our capital it will be prudent.

And we'll probably have some mix of risk in terms of some things we take relative risk on and in some places we're conservative. But we're generally conservative as a company, right? It's rare that we take, you know, a big risk. We've had to do it a few times.

Most of the time it's turned out successful, but we're generally a conservative company.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think it's Captain Obvious. Thank you.

Well, A, I don't think we need access to the capital markets today, So we're not really thinking about that. But I do think it's important to try to work with our bondholders to get to a good solution.

And I include vendors in that. I mean, the tower companies did a good job for us. But on the other hand, they made a lot of money on us, and they're going to lease out their capacity to others. And so, you know, I look at it to do things professionally and realistically and unemotionally.

And, you know, that's what we'll try to do. I've said this many times. It's unfortunate that particularly the tower companies instituted litigation because it stopped the communication.

You now have lawyers on both sides. Lawyers make money by litigating. They have no incentive to try to get clients together, and you end up going through attorneys, and it takes a while. it takes much longer to get to the right answers, which normally ordinary people who are realistic and want to get to a solution that's better than not having a solution, it just takes longer time. So it's unfortunate that the litigation happened, but I knew as soon as that started getting litigated that that was going to lead to a much longer procedure. Now we have a third party, which is a judge in bankruptcy, and the third party is going to make decisions for us, which one side or the other may like or not like.

My experience has been I'd rather make that decision myself in negotiation, but it takes two to tango.

Yeah. It really, the answer is, it's taken all those variables into account. And again, it's our best guess. But it could be, you know, it could be a little higher, a little lower. It's just, we're trying to give you some indication of where it might be. So, you know, if you took a, take the high end of that, took $7 billion and said, here's where we think it's going to be, you probably got to.

You've probably got a model that's realistic for what we know today. So we're trying to give you some guidance, but we don't normally give guidance. And I guess don't even take this guidance as guidance.

But it's our best guess. And, you know, what makes it difficult is there are a lot of variables because there could be 1033s. There could be other things that affect. We have litigation that's going to affect the shutdown cost of the network.

We have, so, you know, obviously it could be higher given where the tower companies think things should go. So, but, you know, as of today, and we'll let you know if things change, but as of today, we still see things in that range. And, you know, it's up to us as management. It's going to take some work to get it to that range. You know, we're certainly not there yet.