Lyft (LYFT) Q3 2025 earnings call transcript

I'm Orelianov, VPFPN and investor relations. On the call today we have OCEO, David Risher, and OCEFO Aaron Brewer. As a reminder, our full prepared remarks are available on the IAR website and we will use this time to answer your questions. We will make forward-looking statements on today's call relating to our business strategy and performance, partnerships, future financial and operating results, trends in our marketplace and guidance. The statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected or implied during this call. These factors and risks are described in our earnings materials and in our recent SEC findings. All of the forward-looking statements that we make on today's call are based on our beliefs as of today and we describe any obligation to update any forward-looking statements except as required by law.

Additionally today, we are going to discuss customers. For a right chair, there are two customers in every car. The driver is this customer and the rider is the driver customer. We care about both. Our discussion today will also include non-gap financial measures which are not a substitute for gap results. Reconciliation of our historical gap to non-gap results can be found in our earnings materials which are available on our IAR website.

With that, I will pass the call on to David.

Thank you, Aurelion. Wow. Q3 was another record quarter across driver hours, active riders and gross bookings. Adjusted EBITDAG grew 29% year over year and our free cash flow generation for the trailing 12 months was over $1 billion for the first time in this history. As you saw this morning, our partnership with United Airlines is now live. You can now all link your accounts to earn miles on all eligible rides you take anywhere, not just to the airport and even better rides taken through your company business profile earn even more. Now, that's big stuff. Don't worry, I'm going to give all you about 20 seconds right now to link your account. I'm not kidding. I want you to be opening up your lift app.

Go to that profile on the lower right hand side, click that profile button, look for rewards, hit manage rewards, and add United Mileage Plus. That's going to be your ticket to ask a question today. I'll give you a couple of seconds to get that done. Additionally, we focused on continuing to create AV partnerships that are differentiated and purposeful with each bringing unique learnings and dynamics to lift. We further built upon our AV framework this quarter with the announcements of Waymo as well as Tensor, powered by NVIDIA, and we're demonstrating how we're positioning ourselves across the entire AV value chain.

Looking ahead to 2026, we are well positioned with multiple growth catalysts converging to accelerate our momentum. I am very excited for this comeback story. And with that, let's get to your questions. Great.

Thank you, David. We will now open the call to questions. So if you would like to ask one, please just press star one. And if you want to redraw your question, just do the same another time.

Sure. Hey, Doug, two great questions. You know, I'm going to speak very briefly here. And then Aaron is going to take both of those. But I'll say very, very briefly on the catalyst side. You know, I've been in this job two and a half years now. And oh man, that we have more opportunity ahead of us than we've had since the first day. And, you know, again, we'll talk about each of, you know, the different pieces there in just a couple of seconds. But I can give you some very live data since I was just in our weekly business review. We were just looking at what happened last week. Last week was Halloween, of course.

And Halloween was not only our biggest day, was actually our biggest hour by hour. We've never had as many rides, never been able to fulfill as many rides as we have. So our biggest day was our biggest week, you know, and not by a little bit. Just extraordinary momentum going on here that's allowing us to continue to grow. And I should say, just to sort of say that very obvious there, that's just in the United States. That's not even the free now and Europe opportunity and the TBR opportunity. So we're coming into the quarter, you know, operationally so strong, so customer test and with so many opportunities next year, it's really pretty extraordinary time. So let's turn over to Aaron to talk both about the catalyst and then the insurance question or the California question.

Yeah, great. Thanks, Doug. I might go on a little longer than David because I'm kind of excited about this subject. But you know, you see our Q3 results, active rider growth at 18% year over year, all time high. Grossbooking's up 16% year over year, another all time high. Justity but does, David mentioned up 29%, another all time high. So that's our consolidated business, but take any of those metrics, just for North America, same, all time highs. So we've got a lot of momentum. Our guide for the fourth quarter is for rides to be up mid to high teens, gross bookings up 17 to 20%. So we see accelerating growth into the fourth quarter. And as we sort of sat and reflected on where we'll end up for 2025, you know, it was important for us to talk about how we see 2026.

So it really starts with, our marketplace is stronger than ever, right? We've got record levels of active riders, we've got record driver hours, as David mentioned, record rides. And so multiple capitalists coming together to keep driving this momentum forward. And I'll just mention a few. You know, first David let off with the United partnership, you know, Doug, you were first. So maybe you connected your accounts first. That's great. Congratulations. But we're excited about that. We think that's going to be a great program, obviously, great value of our list, great value with our partner, United. We will see full year contributions from free now. And we expect that business to grow year over year. We're also going to see a full year of impact from TBR global chauffeuring, the acquisition that we announced recently.

That's only going to show up for a pretty small portion of Q4 in 2025. Under penetrated markets remain, you know, a fantastic area for us. We had previously talked about those markets in the US representing about two thirds of that 161 billion personal vehicle trips annually that we see as our market opportunity. And in Q3 alone, about 70% of our rides growth came out of those areas in North America. And we see strong continued catalysts for growth there. I'll get to California Insurance Reform in a moment, but that's another area that we think has, you know, great upside in terms of continuing, driving new demand on the platform as a result of that. And we've just got strength across our core platform.

You know, as you know, we've been driving, you know, many programs over a long period of time now to drive driver preference. We've got a great driver rewards program. You know, that's going to underpin our platform health. We've got a fantastic business rewards program that we're continuing to promote and get out there. You know, the acquisition of TBR is a natural catalyst. A lot of those people are business travelers. So yeah, there's a lot to be excited about as we think about how we're ending 2025 and then what the setup is for 2026. So thank you for indulging me. Hopefully you could hear the excitement in my voice. As it relates to California, just to kind of bring everyone on the same page.

Some people talk about this as the California insurance reform. It's also formerly known as SB 371. The headline here is the passage of this bill, which is going to go into effect in 2026.2026 is a true win, win, win. Riders win, drivers win. And the great thing is when both of those constituents win, so does lift. So what does it mean? Ride outdated, you know, $1 million required coverage for uninsured, underinsured motorist requirements. It's been in place for a while. And it's 16 times higher than the typical auto coverage, you know, where a vast majority of claims are settled for under $100,000. And over time, this has increased the cost of lift rides in 2025 in California.

Riders have been paying an average of over $6 per ride, just in insurance costs alone. And then in certain areas like LA, it's even higher, it's almost double than that, you know, it's just nuts. So this bill modernizes those regulations. You know, we see passing along the vast majority of those savings to riders in the form of price reduction. That's going to stimulate demand. That's going to be great for drivers, more earnings opportunities, and then great growth opportunities for a list overall.

Right. Thank you.

Yeah, sure. I could hear from you. I mean, I think, gosh, when you hear that perspective, I think it almost immediately should make you think, you know, the people ask that question are sort of thinking a little bit small, either thinking kind of zero some, you know, because, again, just to sort of state the obvious, but as you say, kind of, you know, reground, you know, we're now doing two and a half million rides a day. That's a big number. And, you know, by the way, when I started this job, an investor dig over to say two million rides a day, now it's two and a half million rides a day. But we are more profitable now than when I started by a lot, and we're delivering better service.

Here's a fun fact. Remember those Halloween sets I was just sort of putting out. We actually people up faster this year than we did last year, even though we were doing more rides by a lot. So what that tells you is there is an enormous amount of service upside that is that we've unlocked over the last couple of years that did not come at the expense of our economics. In fact, it was exactly the opposite. It was like the opposite. Now, why might that be? Well, that might be because those two and a half million rides are sent translates to 900 million rides a year, let's call it, plus the other guys, you know, one and a half billion rides a year, let's call it.

So 2.7 billion rides per year is a tiny fraction of the 161 billion rides just in North America. And then remember, with our free and acquisition, the acquisition, we know how to damn it's twice as big. So I sort of like I get this kind of conceptual trade-off, but I think that conceptual trade-off is sort of a scarcity mindset sort of zero, you know, binary, kind of like, you know, we win, the other guys lose or whatever, whatever. I think there's so much innovation left. I'll give you a little tiny story there. We launched Lyft Silver whenever that was maybe six months ago. And now we've increased ridership just in Silver. So this is for older Americans.

It's only available in the United States right now. For older Americans, those rides have increased 50% just in the last six months, well, to well over a million rides in total. And that's just the beginning of that program. And that's not like a low-cost program or sort of a margin, you know, diluted program, whatever. So anyway, I go on this for a long time, but I think that the customer obsession drives profitable growth that continues to be our mantra. Innovation is what is that that's how you get from, you know, tiny to small and medium to large, extra large. And it's a great product and it's only going to get a better product. And I sort of, I don't worry a whole heck of a lot about having to buy that growth or anything like that.

I think there are much better ways to get that growth and it's for innovation.

Sure.

Yeah. Let me take, it was Justin, right? Yeah. Yeah. Let me, I think the last part first, I'll kind of back into a little bit and then maybe hand it over to Aaron to talk a little bit about the economics of what we're seeing. So the first, okay, the answer to the first question is, in markets where AVs operate, rideshare is growing faster than, and I'm talking about comparable apples to apples markets, then rideshare, then markets where AVs are not operating. So that tells you right there that the first thing that happens as AVs come on is they expand the market. And this is what we, because these are new markets, right? I mean, let's be clear.

So, so that's very exciting for us. As an industry, we should be very excited about about AVs. It's a good product that works well, people like it, and they take that and then they take, you know, traditional driver driven rideshare as well. So that's, that's wonderful.

So then, so then let's talk about the economics. So, you know, in the, in the medium term, okay, first, like any new thing requires investment, you know that, right? So for example, in Nashville, where we're, you know, hooking up with with Waymo, we're going to build a depot, Aaron, I'll talk to you about that in a couple of seconds. But, but the relationship, the reason I'm going to go into a little bit of depth on this, you know, we spent quite a lot of time with the Waymo team, really trying to work out an arrangement that was built to scale. And built to scale means it's good for us, and it's good for Waymo, and it's good for riders.

Okay, so what does that look like? It's good on one click. When you, when you put AVs, we're talking about now in Nashville, a couple hundred AVs that'll be on the ground over the next year, and that'll, that'll grow over time. When you put AVs on the ground, the first thing you want to make sure is, are you set up for them to be highly available? Doesn't do any good to have an AV sitting there that's not charged, it's not clean, it's not repaired, it's not, you know, properly maintained, not ready to go.

Okay, if you don't have that, you got nothing. So why are we good at that? We're good at that, because our Flex Drive subsidiary has been doing it for many, many years. We have a 90% availability rate. You know, talk to the rental car guys, and they'll tell you that that is an admirable and vehicle number. So we're good at that, and we're only going to get better. So that's number one. And we get paid for that. Aaron will talk about that in a couple of seconds.

And the second thing is you have to talk about utilization. Utilization means, you know, okay, the car is available, but is there a rider in it? Because that's how revenue is generated. And the answer there is we've worked very, very closely, very deeply, very technically, with Waymo, to set up an arrangement where regardless of whether the car is ordered on Waymo or on Lyft, we're going to be maximizing utilization. It's an integrated supply management system. It's quite technical, and we'll be hard to implement, but once we've got it right, we'll be able to scale it up because both companies have ambitions to scale up, you know, both within Nashville and beyond over time. So that's sort of the structure of this thing.

You've got to have high availability, you've got to have high utilization, you've got to have systems that are super tightly integrated to make sure that the physical world and the digital world all come together seamlessly. And it's a beautiful experience for riders, which is how you drive growth. And now we can talk about the economics broadly speaking. Of course, you've got to invest in some physical infrastructure, but we like the unit economics. There are a lot in alternative to Aaron to talk about that.

Yeah, sure. A couple of things to think about here. You know, David just sort of described what what we call an integrated supply management partnership, right? So that's, you know, number one, on the fleet side, driving availability. And number two, as we think about the sort of integrated supply piece of it, it's about driving utilization to critical things. You know, the good thing is about this construct that we have going in with Waymo is that Lyft earns regardless of platform, right? So regardless of where the car is deployed, we're responsible for it being available. Obviously, when a ride is deployed on Lyft, then there's economics there. So that's the piece of the arrangement. David mentioned we're building a depot.

We had previously disclosed, we thought it'd be about $10 to $15 million investment. We signed a lease. Teams are rare to go. So we're excited about that for 2026.

Sure. Hey, John, I'll start with that. And then I'll turn it over to David to talk about, you know, what we're seeing in is we expect a mid single digit increase on a per ride basis, you know, great outcome, very competitive. Our team continues to make really strong progress in bending that insurance cost curve. All the pillars that we talked about at our investor day are the same things, you know, continuing on technology and approaches to make our platform to reduce accidents and frequency on our platform. Critical pillar, we continue to make strong advancements there.

We've continued to build to continue to deepen our relationship with our third party insurance partners, which has a number of benefits, including the way that we share data and can quickly and efficiently resolve claims. And then of course, on the policy front, we talked a little bit about reforms reforms on the policy front. So really, really proud of our team for the outcome on our 10 on renewals. And I'll turn it over to David.

Sounds good. And we can even tag team on this. I mean, so for the last, I'll give you just a little color. Maybe it's been 18 months or so since we've really started to focus on underpenetrated markets. And the reason is, I mean, aside from just sort of diversification, let's say you don't really want to on your eggs and, you know, in the sort of biggest city basket. But so, you know, two thirds, we look at, I've just mentioned that 161 billion rides in North America. You know, about two thirds of those are in underpenetrated markets. And we saw in Q three, about 70% of our growth came again from from those markets. So they're, so, you know, it's a large part of the country, that's a large part of the TAM.

And then there's, you know, we're seeing great opportunity there by doing some very, you know, clever and careful market management in those markets. I'll give you some examples so you can kind of visualize. You might think of back to school as just kind of come and gone. And so, when you think back to school, you might think high school, but if you think college, you're talking about very significant communities, you know, Bloomington and East Lansing and State College and so forth and so on. And in each one of these, we deployed a specific program to really tap into, you know, that back to school market. And we saw incredible results, actually outsized results compared to the growth we've seen elsewhere.

So this is one of those, and I will also say without sort of tipping our hat too much, I think AI can play an interesting role here as well as we look to manage those markets, you know, more carefully than maybe we have in the past. So a lot of opportunity there, more to come, but for sure you should, you should expect to see quite a bit of our growth come from there in the future.

For sure. So Michael, I feel, for me, I'm going to zoom out just a click from your question and then zoom back in. So the premise was, gosh, you've acquired free now and you've acquired TBR. What are you going to learn particularly about service and sort of underserved markets, maybe for riders and drivers? I'll come back to the second part in a second. But let's just talk about those acquisitions for just 30 seconds each. So free now, you'll remember the theory of the case is fairly simple, right? It says to stop great in the short term. Do you come on much, much more global company? It doubles our TAM. It works with a leader in Europe across the taxi segment in particular, which is an incredibly important part of the European ecosystem kind of ethos.

And it sets us up very, very nicely for autonomous in the future because fleet management and government relations turn out to be really important in the world of autonomous. TBR, more recent, and we haven't talked about that publicly, of course, this happened during the quiet period. This is a global chauffeur network, very, very global. I say that in the sense that it operates in some 3,000 cities around the world. And we're talking about Paris and London, and Frankfurt, and Manchester, and Zurich, and Hong Kong, and Singapore, and Dubai. So world capital is why? Because it focuses on executives, people doing, for example, non-deal road shows, the bankers on the call are very familiar with big events, like the Super Bowl or F1, and so on.

And it offers a very, very high level of service. It's part of a $54 billion market. This is a different market from the on-demand, even the on-demand high-value mode, like Lyft Black, for example. This is a thing way up above that, much, much higher service level.

So if you then look at those assets that we now have, then the question becomes, right, how can you deploy them best? And also, how can you take what you've learned in the United States and bring it on globally? And just maybe a little bit of editorialization here. I think taking a North American company and making a global company is no small thing. But we're going to do it. We're going to do it because the great companies are truly global. They're the ones that are not just thinking of the US as the center of the universe and everywhere else is being less than. They're the ones that learn from what you see overseas and bring it back to the United States and then take it all around the world.

And so, for example, if you look at TBR, their service excellence is unmatched. They're very much a global company. They're actually headquartered in Glasgow. They have their Global Operations Center Center of Excellence in Dubai.

Extraordinary, extraordinary skill set there to level up the service that Lyft can provide all up and down the stack. And then, for now, of course, it's been a high service group forever. OK, so what are the opportunities? I think the opportunities are. No, I'd say that ride hailing in Europe in particular has been a little bit of a degraded experience. If you spend time overseas, it's maybe not even to the quality here in the United States. And I'm not satisfied with where we are in the United States either. So, and I don't want to my hand too much, but I would say a lot of the value we're going to add from quote unquote Lyft is bringing some of our marketplace skills, like priority pickup and wait and save and some other modes to Europe, bringing our driver obsession, I think, in particular to Europe.

And then, from Europe, bringing some of the service excellence that we're seeing, particularly at TBR, but also for now and bringing that, you know, all around the world. So, a bit of a long answer, but I don't think it's a list of flavor of how we're thinking about it.

Yeah, a couple of things maybe that I would add to that. And then I'll come back to your question, Michael, on the Waymo deal is, you know, also as you think about free now, you know, think about the skill set that we have around the way that we drive value and volume through partnerships and our partnerships, you know, the partners that we are aligned with are global, right? There's a great opportunity there. We talked about David talked about AVs just a minute ago, you know, another great opportunity there. I think I mentioned earlier TBR. Obviously, David highlighted that a lot of those are our business rides. You know, we've been investing across our high value modes now for some time and just organically seen some very strong success in Q3 alone, our high value modes were grew 50% year over year.

And so TBR is a great addition to that overall strategy. Sort of back to your Waymo question, you know, I talk about a couple of things. I articulated this as being about driving availability and driving utilization. So the availability side leverages FlexDrive. And I think the unique thing here and maybe a bit of the advantage we have is this is something we know. We know how to keep a car available, you know, with very high quality, very high uptime, so to speak. And so we feel great about our ability to drive value to the partnership through that in-house expertise where, again, we're bringing skill and experience to the table. The second piece of this is all about utilization, right?

And these two words are kind of the, I think, the magic ingredients here, high availability and then high utilization. And if you think about this fairly differentiated way that this integrated supply management partnership is constructed, it's really designed for high utilization, whether the cars, you know, deployed across Waymo One, dispatched across list, you're going to get maximum utilization. It's really sort of our vision of a hybrid network over time. So that's the framework with which I would leave you to think about this.

If you know what, I want to underscore exactly what Aaron said and point out that in the FlexDrive side, not only are we best to breed in terms of availability, but as Aaron said, it's an owned asset of ours. That means we don't have to pay someone else for that. So you can partner with other fleet management, but that's going to cost you money, right? So we've got a very, very nice high expertise and very nice cost position on that side and then on the utilization side. Yeah, we think we've worked out a scheme that allows whether you get the car from Waymo or the car from Lyft, that's going to be the same pool, dynamically sort of dispatched depending on the kind of algorithm of work we do, and that'll lead to utilization, which then improves the economics for both of us.

Yeah, I'll work my way backwards. The 2026 sort of building blocks that I articulated right out at the set are, if you'll notice, it's just all of the things that you know about today, announced partnerships, announced acquisitions, et cetera. So that's what's embedded overall in that outlook. And then as it relates to free now, I don't have a big update for you here for the back half of the year. We talked about the incoming run rate. We expect free now to accelerate in 2026. We're expecting about a billion euro on the top line overall.

So hopefully that's helpful. We gave some additional guidance about the dynamics of how free now flows into our P&L, talked about the impact on revenue margin, et cetera, but happy to go into any more detail, Brad, if you have anything else.

Yeah, they are. Yes. Great. Thanks.

Brad, I might add just because we're now talking about the international world outside of the US. Canada also turns out to be a nice growth driver for us. We've talked about the growth there in the past. I think we delivered about 11.5 million rides in the quarter there as well. So again, I know your cursor was about free now, but just to sort of fill out the international story just a bit more.

Hey, Nikhil. I'll start with that and then turn it over to David. So as I mentioned, when I talked about our 10-1 renewal, working toward common sense, what we view as common sense policy and insurance reform has long been a pillar. I think in the past, we've talked about changes to reform in Florida, changes in Georgia. So this is something that's not new. We will continue to work on it. Progress is difficult to predict. There's nothing inherently in any of the remarks that we've talked about for 2026 necessarily assumed. I mean, these things are difficult overall to forecast. But I would say that we are certainly optimistic that as perhaps other states see how some of the reforms in California, we believe, will lead to much better ride accessibility, better earnings opportunities for drivers that they'll think that's pretty interesting.

Well, and then Nikhil, I'm not going to give you too much detail, but I'll say a little bit, I think maybe so that everyone kind of understands the complexity that you're referring to. So yeah, so imagine a world as will be the world we exist in next year, where there are hundreds of ABs in a market, but there's no way that all of those ABs can satisfy all the ride requests, not even close. So okay, and then imagine, and again, you don't have to use your imagination, this is the future, where those ride requests for AVs come well, those ride requests in general, but specifically for AVs, of course, you're coming in from two different platforms, coming in from the way my platform, and then coming up from the left.

So, so you get quite a complex situation there that you have to manage if you want not to do goofy things, like saying, okay, well, you waymo get the 100 of those and lift you get 300, which is never a good idea, because it means inevitably, there'll be some stranded on one side that don't get to the other or get stranded on the other, you know, silly stuff like that.

So anyway, to your point then, so then your first thought is, well, maybe you just can come up with some other very basic heuristics, you know, but it turns out the heuristics are not the way the real world, but the real world is very, very, to quote our head of marketplace stochastic, it changes very quickly, very dynamic. You have some peak times, you've got some low times, you know, neither one of us wants to be stuck with. Anyway, so, so going to diesel, but this may be another time, but the point is, it's not going to be straightforward, it's not going to be like, okay, you know, so-and-so gets the first 10, and then you get the next 10, or whatever it is, literally every single time a ride request comes in, the work that we have done and will continue to do, will be to figure out what is the absolute best way to fulfill that ride, and that will be many, many dimensions of that, some of it is ETA, you know, and so forth, ETA meaning how fast it is, pick you up, some of them might be time of day, if I make all the sense in the world to start picking people up, you know, it's from times of day using only AVs, you know, certain reasons, so anyway, it's sort of a non-answer, not an answer, I'm sorry, I'm going to say that, but this is the reason why this partnership, you know, frankly took quite a while for us to work out, but we're very confident, both companies are very confident having run, you know, a bajillion models across this thing, that we have something that is going to be effectively created for both and keep these assets, you know, best utilized.

The last thing I'll say is, I think in a sense, this is really the argument for the big thing, which is a hybrid network, it's really, really hard to satisfy demand just with AVs, anytime in the near future, you just, there's just not enough supply in the world, and so, but drivers, you know, they own their own cars, so that's nice, there's no asset ownership you have to have, and they come on and off quite dynamically, again, depending on pricing, so that's a third dimension, put it all together and we think we're going to create something where the whole is created in some of the parts, maybe someday down the road we'll tell you a little bit more about how we do that, but that's a big picture.

So, Kanal, I'll start there, and then maybe David, you want to talk about how we think about, you know, over a much longer period of time, how you scale AVs across a broader set of partners. You know, a short answer here, Kanal, is I'm not going to go into the details, obviously. You know, as we ramp up this partnership, as we gain experience together, we have a lot of optimism, obviously, you know, both the teams will have more to say down the road, but I'm going to stop it at that.

Yeah, you know, this is going to be an area where we're going to have to be a little bit, a little big. The thing, so yeah, gosh, let me just let me talk about utilization for one more second and then zoom out. So you might think to yourself, well, it's not that hard to keep an AV utilized because you don't have that many of them, you got a lot of demand. Well, it turns out that's not the way riders think about things. Riders think about things is this close enough. So I need to get someplace and is this car close enough to pick me up on time? And if it is, then I'll take it if it's priced right and if it's not, then I won't.

And so this is where our history comes in, right? I mean, we've been operating in Nashville for a decade now. So we have an enormous amount of data about what time you would expect, you know, supply be needed, where the demand is going to be specifically, I mean, down to the block by block level. So, you know, so it is this sort of the inputs here are everything from, you know, geography, to history, to weather, to, you know, special events, you know, when, you know, is it a big event weekend and so on and so forth. And that's something we've been doing for many, many years. And that's expertise that we can bring even in a relative, in a new city, like it's a new city for Waymo, not new city for us.

So that's kind of good news. And then you've got to make sure that the car is available to drive and then it's priced right and so forth and so on. You know, again, I'm not going to talk about exactly those breakeven points, but I will say that, you know, we look at the economics of this and we don't, we're not scared by it back to the opposite. You know, the unit economics you would expect would favor AVs over time, you expect, because the variable cost obviously to running an AV is relatively low, not zero to be clear. There are cloud costs or electricity costs or maintenance costs and so forth. But, but, you know, it's, it's, you know, there's certain costs you don't have to pay.

And then you expect insurance to be lower as well. So those are sort of the, some of the inputs that we put in our model when we try to model these things out. But we, we like the economics of AVs a lot. I think that we've set up something that from the stars is going to be a creative and then we'll get better from there.

Yeah, good question and good clarification, Walt. So we have structured this partnership. I would say this way. Both companies have ambitions to scale, you know, beyond, you know, and we built this partnership with belief that that's the goal. You know, talking about timelines is premature, but I would say that certainly the constructs we're using here are constructs that both companies believe can be the basis of something that expands to other markets and I'll just leave it at that.

I mean, I don't want to comment exactly on how they view it, but I would certainly say that our goal, I know speaking just from the perspective here, is to provide such a great level of service that no one has any reason to look anywhere else. But yeah, and I think it's also fair to say that the deeper a partnership, you know, the more likely it is that neither one wants to, you know, do too many other things beyond that, you know. But here, I'm just speaking sort of generically.

Yeah, Stephen, I appreciate the question. I guess maybe as I don't know if my habit today, I'll zoom out a touch before, you know, kind of zooming in. So, your business to business opportunity, and there are different types, right? You mentioned universities as a particular, you know, area of interest, and we have specific relationships with certain universities. To provide transportation on campus. Very interesting. We have healthcare. Lift healthcare, you know, remains a leader in the field. It's called non-emergency medical transportation, and it's getting, you know, quite a lot of additional focus now, you know, versus the past. We've got a new buck who continues to leave that as the same, but then over him, Susie now brings kind of new perspective and new energy to that.

And then B2B, when you're very different types, of course, TBR is a very high-end thing. We talked about that already, but, you know, many companies have preferred travel partners and so forth. So, I think each of these areas is getting, you know, renewed focus. One of the nice things about really focusing on rideshare is, you know, there are a lot of, like, we're not distracted by, you know, food delivery and all kinds of things. Like, we can really, really focus on rideshare and look at all the different segments and how we're treating each one of them, you know, in the highest quality way. So, maybe what I'll do, if you don't mind, I'll pivot just a tiny bit towards the business rewards or the business side of things, rather than just the university and the, and the healthcare side.

You know, we, for a number of years, you know, if I'm honest, we haven't had a great offering for business travel managers who want to get their companies, excuse me, their employees, a reason to choose, to choose left. Now, we have one. We rolled one out, beginning this with September, you get 6% back, you just mentioned this idea of, you know, other people's money. So, yeah, so often at a company, it's the company that's paying. We're giving you 6% back, you can then use that on your personal rides as well. That's literally the lift cash back, you can use it on your personal rides. We've seen great uptake there. And by the way, how much does it cost?

Zero, it costs zero, which is different from the other guys, it costs not zero. So, that's an area where we, so I would say just generally, again, you know, business, business has become an increased area of focus for us. We're seeing really good, you know, attraction in some of these early programs we've put out. Health care has been a strength of ours for a long time. And then, universities, I'm glad you bring it up. You know, maybe stay tuned for more on that one.

Thank you, David. David, any closing remarks? I think if that's it, my main closing remark is, you know, you dang well better be hooking up your United Mileage Plus to lift, because that's a great program. And up to four miles back for every dollar you spent. Look, we've had a great quarter. And the reason we've had a great quarter is not just because of what we've done in the last three months. It's because we've been doing over the last, you know, at least two and a half years since I've been here, obsessing over customers. That's what drives profitable growth. I think what Aaron and I started, I think the first quarter, I think we had consumed $329 million of cash, if I'm not mistaken.

Now, we're producing a billion dollars of cash. It's a $1.3 billion swing. And the reason that's happened is because we've been obsessed with customers and we have an incredible team every single day that wakes up and just crushes it. And they're the ones that get all the credit. So we get to talk about it. They're the ones that do the work. And thank you all very much, investors, for traveling along with us. And we're looking forward to keeping you up to date. Right.