Sylvamo (SLVM) Q3 2024 earnings call transcript

Transcript, summary, guidance, and what analysts pressed on from the Sylvamo Corp. call on November 12, 2024.

Held
November 12, 2024
Tone
Confident0.78
Analysts
3
Words
5,024
Q4 adjusted EBITDA guidance
$150 million-$165 millionvs $193 million in Q3
Project Horizon savings
$120 millionyear-end run-rate, before inflation
Georgetown earnings impact
~$40 million negativebased on 2024 margins
2025 European outages
$30 million-$40 millionSaillat and Nymölla
Eastover turbine outage
50 days10-year inspection
Eastover outage expense
$8 millionQ4 operating expense
2025 North American capacity
down 10%after announced reductions
High-return project pipeline
greater than $200 millionnearing finalization

Summary

Management framed the quarter as strong execution, with cost savings and footprint simplification increasingly offsetting structural volume losses.

  • $120M$120 million Project Horizon savings now exceeds the original target by $10 million before inflation.
  • $40M$40 million Georgetown earnings impact already incorporates benefits from mix improvement and reduced lack-of-order downtime.
  • North American and European capacity reductions should support comparable shipments despite demand declines.
  • $200MMore than $200 million of high-return projects is nearing engineering completion and approval.

Guidance

  • $150M$150 million-$165 million Q4 adjusted EBITDA guidance.
  • $20M$20 million-$25 million Q4 unfavorable price and mix impact.
  • $15M$15 million-$20 million Q4 volume improvement.
  • $8M$8 million Q4 operating expense from Eastover turbine-generator maintenance.
  • $5M$5 million-$10 million Q4 input and transportation cost increase.
  • $17M$17 million Q4 planned maintenance outage cost increase.
  • $30M$30 million-$40 million 2025 European maintenance outages across Saillat and Nymölla.
  • 40%At least 40% of 2024 cash flow returned to shareholders.

What analysts pressed on

  • 01Georgetown mitigation: benefits from mix, reduced downtime and simplification are already included in the $40 million impact.
  • 02Fourth-quarter free cash flow: approximately $65 million was considered reasonable, despite no formal cash-flow guidance.
  • 032025 European maintenance: both Saillat and Nymölla outages fall in the first half, with a more precise estimate next quarter.
  • 04EUDR implementation: eventual market and import effects remain unquantified because regulatory details still require clarification.
  • 05Capital allocation: buybacks remain preferred while valuation is attractive; special dividends remain possible but secondary.
  • 06Riverdale agreement: potential termination was described as approximately breakeven through mix improvement, but timing remains unknown.

Notable disclosures

  • 100,000 retained Georgetown tons have already been fully qualified and transferred to Ticonderoga and Eastover.
  • Riverdale termination would likely be earnings-neutral because its grades are produced elsewhere in Sylvamo’s system.
  • $60M$60 million Brazilian goodwill-tax escrow could potentially be released, but authorities will appeal and resolution may take years.
  • $8M50-day Eastover turbine-generator inspection creates an $8 million energy-related fourth-quarter burden that will not repeat in Q1.
  • Shipments are expected to remain comparable in 2025 despite European and North American demand declines.

Risks raised

  • $20 million-$25 million Q4 price-and-mix headwind reflects European price declines and unfavorable regional mix.
  • European and North American demand is expected to decline 2% and 3%, respectively, in 2025.
  • Lower pulp prices remain correlated with European paper pricing and could pressure merchant pulp sales.
  • EUDR requirements remain unclear, leaving potential import and market effects unquantified.
  • Brazilian tax authorities will appeal the favorable ruling covering two-thirds of the disputed goodwill amount.

Tone: Confident 0.78

The tone was strongly positive on execution, savings and structural positioning, tempered by pricing pressure, maintenance costs and uncertain regulatory timing.

Who spoke

Company

  • Hans BjorkmanVice President of Investor Relations
  • Jean-Michel RibiérasChairman & CEO
  • John V. SimsSenior VP & CFO

Analysts

  • Daniel HarrimanAnalyst, Sidoti & Company, LLC
  • George StaphosAnalyst, BofA Securities, Research Division
  • Matthew McKellarAnalyst, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division

Full transcript

Analyst questions are marked with a bar. Timestamps are into the recording.

Prepared remarks

* Capability needed to view estimates data. Please contact your account manager. division of S&P Global Inc. All rights reserved spglobal. com/marketintelligence Sylvamo Corporation NYSE:SLVM Earnings Call Tuesday, November 12, 2024 3:00 PM GMT CALL PARTICIPANTS 2 PRESENTATION 3 QUESTION AND ANSWER 6 SYLVAMO CORPORATION Q3 2024 EARNINGS CALL NOV 12, 2024 spglobal. com/marketintelligence 2 Call Participants EXECUTIVES Hans Bjorkman Vice President of Investor Relations Jean-Michel Ribiéras Chairman & CEO John V. Sims Senior VP & CFO ANALYSTS Daniel Harriman Sidoti & Company, LLC George Staphos BofA Securities, Research Division Matthew McKellar RBC Capital Markets, Research Division SYLVAMO CORPORATION Q3 2024 EARNINGS CALL NOV 12, 2024 spglobal. com/marketintelligence 3 Presentation Operator Good morning. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to Sylvamo's Third Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions]. As a reminder, your conference is being recorded. I'd now like to turn the call over to Hans Bjorkman, Vice President, Investor Relations. Sir, the floor is yours.

Hans BjorkmanVice President of Investor Relations

Hans Bjorkman Vice President of Investor Relations Thanks, Audra. Good morning, and thank you for joining our third quarter 2024 earnings call. Our speakers this morning are Jean-Michel Ribiéras,Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and John Sims, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Slides 2 and 3 contain important information, including certain legal disclaimers. For example, during this call, we will make forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties. We will also present certain non-U. S. GAAP financial information. Reconciliations of those figures to U. S. GAAP financial measures are available in the appendix. Our website also contains copies of the earnings release as well as today's presentation.

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Jean-Michel.

Jean-Michel RibiérasChairman & CEO

Jean-Michel Ribiéras Chairman & CEO Thanks, Hans. Good morning, and thank you for joining our call. I'll begin on Slide 4. We had a really strong third quarter. Our teams executed very well, delivering strong commercial and operational performance. Our mill system ran well, and we continue to see relatively stable input costs. We continue to make good progress with Project Horizon, our cost reduction program to streamline overhead, manufacturing and supply chain costs. We are on target to exceed our $110 million year-end run rate savings goal by up to $10 million.

Lastly, these combined performances by our teams resulted in very strong earnings and outstanding cash flow in the quarter. Let's move to the next slide. Slide 5 shows our key financial metrics. We earned adjusted EBITDA of $193 million with a margin of 20%. Free cash flow generation was $119 million, and we generated adjusted operating earnings of $2.44 per share. I'm proud of our teams delivered impressive results while taking care of our customers. More importantly, I'm proud of our team's commitment to putting people before paper to ensure everyone returns home safe at the end of each day. We are focused on building a resilient safety culture by involving every team member in our efforts to proactively eliminate risk and create a safer environment for everyone every day.

Now John will review our performance in more detail.

John V. SimsSenior VP & CFO

John V. Sims Senior VP & CFO Thank you, Jean-Michel, and good morning, everyone. Slide 6 contains our third quarter earnings bridge versus the second quarter. The $193 million of adjusted EBITDA and was better than our outlook of $170 million to $185 million and almost $30 million higher than the prior quarter. Price and mix was unfavorable by $4 million driven by North America mix. Volume increased by $10 million, driven by North America. Operations and other costs were stable and better than projected, reflecting solid operations across our mill system. Planned maintenance outages costs decreased by $28 million as we had no major planned outages in the quarter. SYLVAMO CORPORATION Q3 2024 EARNINGS CALL NOV 12, 2024 spglobal.

com/marketintelligence 4 Input and transportation costs increased by $4 million as negative fiber costs in Latin America more than offset positive in energy and transportation in North America. I'd also like to commend our team for their very strong all-around performance that resulted in a 20% margin. Let's move to Slide 7. We expect to deliver fourth quarter adjusted EBITDA of $150 million to $165 million. We project price and mix to be unfavorable by $20 million to $25 million. This is due to pulp and paper price decreases in Europe, higher export mix in Latin America and customer mix effect in North America. We expect volume to improve by $15 million to $20 million, mainly due to stronger volume in Latin America.

Operations and 0ther costs are projected to increase slightly due to an $8 million operating expense with a planned 10-year turbine generator maintenance event at our Eastover mill. This will be partially offset by better fixed cost absorption from less economic downtime in North America. We expect input and transportation costs to increase by $5 million to $10 million, mostly due to transportation and seasonally higher energy. Planned maintenance outages are projected to increase by $17 million as we have a planned outage at Eastover this quarter. Let's go to Slide 8. An important part of our strategy is to be a low-cost producer. This time last year, we initiated Project Horizon, cost reduction program to streamline overhead, manufacturing and supply chain costs.

As Jean-Michel mentioned earlier, before inflation, we're on target to exceed $110 million year-end run rate savings goal by up to $10 million. This will continue to be a focus for us moving forward, and we will provide more details on our next earnings call when we wrap up 2024. Let's move to Slide 9. As was announced 2 weeks ago, Sylvamo and International Paper have agreed to mutually terminate the Georgetown supply agreement in December. International Paper has also announced that the Georgetown mill will cease production by the end of the year. We have plans to support customers through this transition as they find alternative suppliers. Of the approximately 250,000 tons, we expect Georgetown to supply this year, we will exit about 150,000 tons.

This will have roughly a negative 400 -- I'm sorry, negative $40 million earnings impact, assuming 2024 margin, i. e. , no change in operating costs, prices, input costs, et cetera. We will retain about 100,000 tons of the most profitable products. These products have largely been qualified and transitioned to our Ticonderoga and Eastover mills, which will reduce economic downtime in our North America business. The combination of optimizing our mix of products, segments and customers while leveraging efficiencies from a simplified footprint will help us mitigate the loss of volume. As a result of the Georgetown closure, our North America business will become leaner and more productive. Also we are continuing to focus on strategic initiatives to simplify the business, unlock efficiencies and drive earnings growth.

Let's move to Slide 10. With the Georgetown mill closing by the end of December, in addition to the capacity reductions announced earlier this year, North America uncoated freesheet capacity will be reduced by approximately 10%. On this slide, you can see the effect of these capacity reductions. The left-hand side, shows the supply position as of the end of the first half of the year. And on the right-hand side, you have the view after all announced capacity reductions have been removed. Consistent with our strategy and our investment thesis, we are committed to the uncoated freesheet business and are very well positioned to help our customers win in their respective areas. Let's go to Slide 11. Uncoated freesheet industry conditions are improving in Europe and North America, as seen on this slide.

Next year, European demand is estimated to decline 2%. However, supply is expected to drop by 7% after 2 uncoated freesheet closures later this year. Latin America demand supply are both expected to be stable in 2025.

Lastly, North America demand is estimated to decline 3%. However, supply is expected to drop by 10%. As industry conditions evolve, we are well positioned to serve our customers for the long run through our talented team, the iconic brands and our low-cost global footprint. I'll conclude my comments on Slide 12. I want to wrap up with some encouraging news as it relates to the Brazil goodwill tax dispute. Last month, a Brazilian Federal Regional Court ruled in our favor on a court SYLVAMO CORPORATION Q3 2024 EARNINGS CALL NOV 12, 2024 spglobal. com/marketintelligence 5 case covering 2/3 of the disputed amount. As a result of this, we are currently discussing with our lenders the possibility of eliminating the $60 million escrow requirement that we funded in 2023.

The Brazilian task authorities will appeal the court ruling, and it could be several years before there is a final resolution on this matter. As of now, that's all we have to report on this. We will keep you posted on any material changes as we progress, and there is also more detail in the appendix. I'll now turn the call back over to Jean-Michel.

Jean-Michel RibiérasChairman & CEO

Jean-Michel Ribiéras Chairman & CEO Thanks, John. I'll conclude my comments on Slide 13. Sylvamo is a cash flow story, and we are creating shareholder value through strong cash generation and disciplined capital allocation. I continue to be impressed with our teams as we work to take care of our customer needs and remain the supplier of choice. We generated outstanding free cash flow in the third quarter. We're reducing our cost structure and are reinvesting in our business with a great pipeline of high-return capital projects which will enable us to grow earnings and cash flow in the coming years. We are simplifying our North America business to become leaner and more agile to drive earnings growth. We are committing to return at least 40% of our cash flow to shareholders this year.

Looking forward, we are encouraged by the uncoated freesheet conditions across our regions. We're confident in our future and motivated by the opportunities that lie ahead. With that, I'll turn the call back to Hans.

Hans BjorkmanVice President of Investor Relations

Hans Bjorkman Vice President of Investor Relations Thanks, Jean-Michel, and thank you, John. Okay, Audra, we're ready to take the questions. SYLVAMO CORPORATION Q3 2024 EARNINGS CALL NOV 12, 2024 spglobal.

Questions and answers

com/marketintelligence 6 Question and Answer Operator [Operator Instructions].

Daniel HarrimanAnalyst, Sidoti & Company, LLC

We'll take our first question from Daniel Harriman at Sidoti & Company. Daniel Harriman Sidoti & Company, LLC With the upcoming closure of Georgetown and then the announced strategy changes at IP, to the extent that you can, could you provide any comment or ideas about how the capacity reduction has any impact on how you think about the Riverdale agreement that you have going forward with the company?

Jean-Michel RibiérasChairman & CEO

Jean-Michel Ribiéras Chairman & CEO Yes. So Daniel, thanks for joining the call. Since we started the spin-off of IP and started Sylvamo, we've been preparing for that. So we know it will happen. We have no information on when. We've not been noticed of anything. But we're prepared. The one thing which is important to understand with Riverdale, which is different than Georgetown, is Riverdale grades are grades we produce in our other mills. So if Riverdale was going to go down, we believe that the mix improvement, we will realize at current margins will essentially mitigate any potential negative impact to our earnings. So Riverdale for us, we're ready, we're prepared. And if it was to happen, it will probably be a breakeven with the benefits we would have from it.

Daniel HarrimanAnalyst, Sidoti & Company, LLC

Daniel Harriman Sidoti & Company, LLC Perfect. And then with the 100,000 tons that you are retaining of that business, has that all been transitioned over to your existing footprint? Or is that still ongoing?

Jean-Michel RibiérasChairman & CEO

Jean-Michel Ribiéras Chairman & CEO Yes, it's all been transferred. It's ready.

Operator We'll move next to George Staphos at Bank of America.

George StaphosAnalyst, BofA Securities, Research Division

George Staphos BofA Securities, Research Division Congratulations on a very strong quarter, guys. My two questions to start. Can you talk about what offset you may have from tightening the footprint, et cetera, that would help offset the, if you will, the gross impact from Georgetown and those 100,000 tons. So said differently, of the $40 million currently based on current operating margins or margins. What do you think the net would be all else equal in 2025, given all the other things that you're working on? That's question number one. Question number two, Sylvamo has been a cash flow story since it's been to its credit, and you certainly been very singular in executing your strategy here and elsewhere.

When we look at free cash flow for the fourth quarter based on where EBITDA is based on CapEx and interest expense and then tax affecting that, we're coming up with something around $65 million to $75 million for free cash flow. Could you talk to that? I don't know if there's a comment in the slides around that in terms of whether that's a reasonably good estimate or other things that we should be thinking about?

John V. SimsSenior VP & CFO

John V. Sims Senior VP & CFO SYLVAMO CORPORATION Q3 2024 EARNINGS CALL NOV 12, 2024 spglobal. com/marketintelligence 7 George, it's John Sims. Thanks for joining the call. On your first question I'm going to be careful. We're not going to project anything in terms of pricing impact that we should have next year. But certainly, as we put out the capacity closure, if you will, of the Georgetown mill, it's going to be a net positive for the industry. And on top of that, with the other closures that have occurred. So again, the $40 million impact we have is based on 2024 margins not projecting 2025 margins. Of course, there's other things other than the impact of pricing that could impact that cost and other things like that.

I also want to mention though, we talked about Project Horizon. We are slightly exceeding our target of $110 million. We are now projecting $120 million. Remind you that is before inflation, we estimated about $50 million of inflation this year. And we're running ahead of that. So we think that, that also we did Horizon in anticipation of Georgetown. And so that also helps us mitigate the impact of the Georgetown.

George StaphosAnalyst, BofA Securities, Research Division

George Staphos BofA Securities, Research Division John, I understand. I guess maybe what I'm saying is could you help us with the reduced economic downtime, the improved mix and streamlining SKUs, holding everything else constant, we understand why you need to do that, does that add back $5 million, $10 million or too hard to say or it's modest enough that we should just think about $40 million? And then my other question.

John V. SimsSenior VP & CFO

John V. Sims Senior VP & CFO Yes, I understand your question now. That's factored into the $40 million impact reduction of the simplification of the business and reduction of lack-of-order downtime.

George StaphosAnalyst, BofA Securities, Research Division

George Staphos BofA Securities, Research Division Okay. And on free cash flow for the fourth quarter?

John V. SimsSenior VP & CFO

John V. Sims Senior VP & CFO Yes. Free cash flow for the fourth quarter, I think you said estimated about $65 million I would say that, that's approximately that's not out of the realm of possibility. Yes.

George StaphosAnalyst, BofA Securities, Research Division

George Staphos BofA Securities, Research Division Go ahead sorry.

John V. SimsSenior VP & CFO

John V. Sims Senior VP & CFO No, I'm just saying we don't usually give an outlook on cash flow. I'm a little bit hesitant, but I don't see anything that's wrong with your estimate.

Operator [Operator Instructions].

Matthew McKellarAnalyst, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division

We'll go next to Matthew McKellar at RBC Capital Markets. Matthew McKellar RBC Capital Markets, Research Division I'd like to ask about planned maintenance in Europe in 2025, which you've communicated I think will be in the $30 million to $40 million range across Saillat and Nymolla. Could you first maybe just remind us of where those outages will fall in the year. And then I'd assume Europe is the largest moving part year-over- year, but how do you expect your total maintenance outage costs in '25 to compared to the $73 million you're guiding to in 2024?

Jean-Michel RibiérasChairman & CEO

Jean-Michel Ribiéras SYLVAMO CORPORATION Q3 2024 EARNINGS CALL NOV 12, 2024 spglobal. com/marketintelligence 8 Chairman & CEO So Matt, Jean-Michel speaking. We will deliver a more precise estimate in our next earnings. But directionally, the thing is our European mills are mostly on a 24-month cycle, which means 1 year, you have outages cost and the other year, we don't have outage cost. That's probably the biggest change with this year. Then there will be some small ones here and there, but -- and that's $40 million impact because we are on the year with outages at both mills, Saillat and Nymolla, next year. So I don't have the exact number, but I would say when we finish the budget, we'll inform them to you.

But directionally, you take what we've done historically and you have the $40 million and that would be -- that will be good. Post-outage, by the way, will be on the first half of the year, the 2 European outage.

Matthew McKellarAnalyst, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division

Matthew McKellar RBC Capital Markets, Research Division Okay. Next, I'd like to ask about the implementation of the European Union Deforestation Regulation, which has been pushed out a year.

Jean-Michel RibiérasChairman & CEO

But -- what is your view on how its eventual implementation will affect the European uncoated freesheet markets and maybe imports into Europe in particular? Jean-Michel Ribiéras Chairman & CEO So, yes, I think it's always the same thing. Intention of the EUDR is a good one. We are very in favor of controlling the wood and making sure we use appropriate wood with no deforestation. And we do that all the time, and have always done it. Specific of the rules still needs to clarification. We've got some improvement in understanding what Europe is expecting. I think that's why it's been moved. It's not because people don't want to do it. It's because we need to be clear on how the law will impact some of the things we do every day, which we don't know what it's going to be, really.

Considering potential import in Europe, I think it's a little bit early to say. Because it will depend on the details of the ruling. But it could have an impact, which would be positive for us being a European producer.

Matthew McKellarAnalyst, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division

Matthew McKellar RBC Capital Markets, Research Division Great. And if I could just sneak one last one in on capital allocation. Can you share any updated perspective on how you may be evaluating resumption of share repurchases here with where the shares are today versus how you potentially think about a special dividend.

Jean-Michel RibiérasChairman & CEO

Jean-Michel Ribiéras Chairman & CEO We haven't changed our strategy in terms of capital allocation. We maintain a strong balance sheet. We have a strong dividend, which is the foundation of our cash return. And as long as we find the repurchase share price attractive, we will share back. And on special occasions, it could be we do a onetime, but I would say -- we've got still a lot of opportunities on repurchasing share. So we're looking at it like we look at other elements, but we're committed to our 40% for this year return back to shareholders.

Operator And we'll take a follow-up from George Staphos at Bank of America.

George StaphosAnalyst, BofA Securities, Research Division

George Staphos BofA Securities, Research Division So as we look at your fourth quarter bridge versus third quarter, and thanks for doing that work for us. Are there any things that we should particularly consider as continuing into the first half of '25 on that waterfall, particularly on Slide 7, does price mix stay unfavorable recognizing that sequential not year- on-year, but nonetheless, do we have to worry about a little bit of pressure into the first half of the year based on what you can see right now. SYLVAMO CORPORATION Q3 2024 EARNINGS CALL NOV 12, 2024 spglobal. com/marketintelligence 9 And then secondly, we've been seeing generally pulp prices heading lower.

John V. SimsSenior VP & CFO

Certainly, you have some effect in terms of merchant sales of your pulp, but what's that doing to the cost curve and how the markets are developing on paper particularly in Europe. John V. Sims Senior VP & CFO Yes, let me George take that. So from -- if you look at the price and mix, certainly, the pulp price and the European pricing as a result, that does have a strong correlation between the two. We expect that to continue and that will be offset somewhat by some things that from a mix perspective. Remember also that the first quarter is typically our lowest volume in LatAm. And then it increases throughout the year. So we're going to go from a very strong quarter.

Typically, we have for LatAm volume into seasonally a little bit slower going into the first quarter. I think from operations and costs, both the fourth quarter and the first quarter were burdened by a little bit more operating costs due to colder temperatures in the northern Hemisphere. Being offset somewhat by the warmer temperatures in LatAm. I do want to call your attention and we called this out that burdening our ops and this outlook is the turbine generator outage. That's a 50-day outage. It shows up in ops. It's a 10-year inspection that we have. And so what it means is that while that turbine generator is being inspected, we're purchasing energy that we normally would be making, and that's about a negativ e $8 million impact that won't repeat into the first quarter.

George StaphosAnalyst, BofA Securities, Research Division

George Staphos BofA Securities, Research Division Okay. And John, maybe if I can just sneak one in to use a phrase.

John V. SimsSenior VP & CFO

So overall, again, you've given us the guide for the fourth quarter. Should Latin America be up given the uptick in volume or will the mix effect and it will be an offset -- said differently, if LatAm is flat to up than North America and Europe are holding more of the burden, would that be fair? Or how would you have us think about that? John V. Sims Senior VP & CFO Yes. So Latin America in the fourth quarter is up in volume. The mix is let's say, slightly negative. And that meaning because of Brazil, the Brazil demand is slightly down, where the rest of the LatAm is up. So that's having a little bit offsetting effect in the fourth quarter outlook.

So we're seeing a negative mix impact in LatAm, but that's showing up in a positive volume which you can see in our bridge or our outlook because of the seasonally stronger LatAm.

Operator And we'll take a follow-up from Daniel Harriman at Sidoti & Company.

Daniel HarrimanAnalyst, Sidoti & Company, LLC

Daniel Harriman Sidoti & Company, LLC Just a quick one. How should we think about economic downtime in Europe moving forward? Obviously, it was up both in Europe and North America in 3Q, which based on comments in the second quarter call was not unexpected.

Jean-Michel RibiérasChairman & CEO

But North America is going to benefit from reduced capacity from Georgetown, but should we expect the same in Europe as capacity leaves the system in 2025? Jean-Michel Ribiéras Chairman & CEO Daniel, it's Jean-Michel. As we've show it to you before, there is a reduction in capacity in Europe also. In total, there is 2 mills, which -- 2 machines which are shutting down, which effect will be b y the year- end. So we expect for both North America and Europe to have stronger capacity reduction versus demand decrease. So net should be good for volume. And if we have better volume, we have less LOO in those two regions.

John V. SimsSenior VP & CFO

SYLVAMO CORPORATION Q3 2024 EARNINGS CALL NOV 12, 2024 spglobal. com/marketintelligence 10 John V. Sims Senior VP & CFO Daniel, if you recall from our statements around the fourth quarter outlook, we actually talked about less lack of order downtime in our operations and other costs, and that's across the board, both North America and Europe. So we're already seeing less lack of order downtime in the European system.

Operator [Operator Instructions].

George StaphosAnalyst, BofA Securities, Research Division

We'll go back to George Staphos at Bank of America. George Staphos BofA Securities, Research Division I know no guarantees in this certainly. But my last question, if you're looking at demand both from North America and Europe that are however you pitched it flat to up, should shipments be comparable with your demand outlook? Or do you expect shipments might track above or below? And if so, what would be the reasons that you see at this juncture?

Jean-Michel RibiérasChairman & CEO

Jean-Michel Ribiéras Chairman & CEO I think we expect about the same number.

George StaphosAnalyst, BofA Securities, Research Division

George Staphos BofA Securities, Research Division And forgive me, I misspoke. You're looking for demand to be down a little bit in Europe and in North America. Shipment should be the same.

John V. SimsSenior VP & CFO

John V. Sims Senior VP & CFO Yes. I just want to make sure you're talking about the 2025 comments we made.

George StaphosAnalyst, BofA Securities, Research Division

George Staphos BofA Securities, Research Division Correct. I'm on Slide 11. With demand down, call it, 2% and 3% in Europe and North America, you expect shipments should be comparable from what you can see right now?

Jean-Michel RibiérasChairman & CEO

Jean-Michel Ribiéras Chairman & CEO Yes.

Operator And that concludes the question-and-answer session. I'll now turn the call back over to Hans Bjorkman for closing comments.

Hans BjorkmanVice President of Investor Relations

Hans Bjorkman Vice President of Investor Relations Thanks, Audra.

Jean-Michel RibiérasChairman & CEO

Before we wrap up the call, I'll turn it back over to Jean-Michel for some closing thoughts. Jean-Michel Ribiéras Chairman & CEO Thanks, everybody, for joining our quarter -- our call, it was, as we said, a good quarter. We intend to continue to maintain a strong financial position. We intend to continue to return cash to shareholders. And one thing which we've talked a lot and maybe not progress as fast as we wanted up to now, but it's going to accelerate is reinvesting in our business to increase our competitive advantages. As we've told SYLVAMO CORPORATION Q3 2024 EARNINGS CALL NOV 12, 2024 spglobal. com/marketintelligence 11 you before, we have a pipeline of greater than $200 million of high-return projects.

As we are preparing our budget for next year, we are looking at some high-return projects that are nearing finalization of engineering work and even preparation for more approval. So we expect to be able to invest and ultimately get the increased returns from this project relatively soon for some of this $200 million. So lastly, we're confident in our ability to generate strong earnings and cash flows through the cycle. So we're looking at the upcoming quite positive. Thank you to all of you for joining today.

Operator Once again, we'd like to thank you for your participating in Sylvamo's Third Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. You may now disconnect. SYLVAMO CORPORATION Q3 2024 EARNINGS CALL NOV 12, 2024 spglobal. com/marketintelligence 12 These materials have been prepared solely for information purposes based upon information generally available to the public and from sources believed to be reliable. No content (including index data, ratings, credit-related analyses and data, research, model, software or other application or output therefrom) or any part thereof (Content) may be modified, reverse engineered, reproduced or distributed in any form by any means, or stored in a database or retrieval system, without the prior written permission of S&P Global Market Intelligence or its affiliates (collectively, S&P Global). The Content shall not be used for any unlawful or unauthorized purposes. S&P Global and any third-party providers, (collectively S&P Global Parties) do not guarantee the accuracy, completeness, timeliness or availability of the Content. S&P Global Parties are not responsible for any errors or omissions, regardless of the cause, for the results obtained from the use of the Content. THE CONTENT IS PROVIDED ON "AS IS" BASIS. S&P GLOBAL PARTIES DISCLAIM ANY AND ALL EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR USE, FREEDOM FROM BUGS, SOFTWARE ERRORS OR DEFECTS, THAT THE CONTENT'S FUNCTIONING WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR THAT THE CONTENT WILL OPERATE WITH ANY SOFTWARE OR HARDWARE CONFIGURATION. In no event shall S&P Global Parties be liable to any party for any direct, indirect, incidental, exemplary, compensatory, punitive, special or consequential damages, costs, expenses, legal fees, or losses (including, without limitation, lost income or lost profits and opportunity costs or losses caused by negligence) in connection with any use of the Content even if advised of the possibility of such damages. S&P Global Market Intelligence's opinions, quotes and credit-related and other analyses are statements of opinion as of the date they are expressed and not statements of fact or recommendations to purchase, hold, or sell any securities or to make any investment decisions, and do not address the suitability of any security. S&P Global Market Intelligence may provide index data. Direct investment in an index is not possible. Exposure to an asset class represented by an index is available through investable instruments based on that index. S&P Global Market Intelligence assumes no obligation to update the Content following publication in any form or format. The Content should not be relied on and is not a substitute for the skill, judgment and experience of the user, its management, employees, advisors and/or clients when making investment and other business decisions. S&P Global Market Intelligence does not act as a fiduciary or an investment advisor except where registered as such. S&P Global keeps certain activities of its divisions separate from each other in order to preserve the independence and objectivity of their respective activities. As a result, certain divisions of S&P Global may have information that is not available to other S&P Global divisions. S&P Global has established policies and procedures to maintain the confidentiality of certain nonpublic information received in connection with each analytical process. S&P Global may receive compensation for its ratings and certain analyses, normally from issuers or underwriters of securities or from obligors. S&P Global reserves the right to disseminate its opinions and analyses. S&P Global's public ratings and analyses are made available on its Web sites, www. standardandpoors. com (free of charge), and www. ratingsdirect. com and www. globalcreditportal. com (subscription), and may be distributed through other means, including via S&P Global publications and third-party redistributors. Additional information about our ratings fees is available at www. standardandpoors. com/usratingsfees. © 2024 S&P Global Market Intelligence.

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