Alcoa (AA) Q3 2026 earnings call transcript

Transcript, summary, guidance, and what analysts pressed on from the Alcoa Corp. call on October 15, 2026.

Held
October 15, 2026
Length
41 min
Tone
Positive0.55
Analysts
7
Words
5,792
Indonesian capacity next year
1.5 million metric tonsexpected to come online
China production 2026
45.8 million metric tons400,000 tons above nominal cap
Messina East potential capacity
635 megawatts180 megawatts initially
Pro forma leverage
1.5 timesafter acquisition
Q4 working capital release
about 10 daysquantum depends on year-end pricing
Q4 aluminum cost increase
$30 million$10 million carbon
Transition services agreement
18 monthswith South32

Summary

Management framed the quarter as operationally stronger, with integration readiness and asset monetization advancing while safety and disciplined deleveraging remained priorities.

  • Six year-to-date production records and the Alumar restart underscored improving operating stability.
  • Western Australia mine approvals are now expected in 2027, but management said six additional months in current areas should protect supply, quality, and cost.
  • Management said deleveraging will take priority after the South32 transaction closes, with the adjusted net debt target to be updated at closing.

Guidance

  • Higher production and shipments expected in both segments in Q4, assuming refining stability and continued smelter productivity.
  • Flat Q4 alumina segment performance elements, excluding market pricing.
  • $30M$30 million Q4 aluminum segment cost increase, including $10 million from carbon.
  • About 10 days of working capital release expected in Q4, with the amount dependent on year-end pricing.

What analysts pressed on

  • 01Alumina guidance: flat refers to performance elements, excludes pricing, and maintenance offsets improved shipments.
  • 02Aluminum shipments: Q2 included about 30,000 metric tons of repositioned inventory sales that did not recur in Q3.
  • 03Canadian tariff carve-out: management lacked information on government discussions but expects the marginal ton to remain from outside North America.
  • 04Indonesian supply: management expects about 1.5 million metric tons of smelting capacity online next year and will update its full-year market view in January.
  • 05Capital returns: share repurchases were not endorsed; management said post-close deleveraging is the priority.
  • 06Western Australia contingencies: management described mine resequencing but did not detail plans beyond six months, saying harder decisions would then be required.

Notable disclosures

  • $315M$315 million potential Messina East proceeds include staged payments tied to permitting and data-center expansion, not a repeatable transaction template.
  • 635 megawatts is the potential Messina East site capacity, from an initial 180 megawatts and two possible step-ups.
  • Two additional assets could follow Messina East, but management did not identify them publicly.
  • An 18-month transition services agreement will support integration after the South32 transaction closes.
  • 45.8MManagement said China produced about 45.8 million metric tons in 2026, roughly 400,000 tons above the nominal cap.

Risks raised

  • A fatality occurred at the Alumar smelter on September 16; management said safety controls and accountability are being strengthened.
  • Western Australia mining approvals are taking longer than expected and may extend into 2027.
  • Q4 costs face higher direct input prices and planned maintenance; carbon costs add $10 million in Q4.
  • About 1.5 million metric tons of Indonesian smelting capacity is expected online next year, adding supply uncertainty.
  • Messina East expansion depends on demand, regulatory approvals, and the buyer's available capital.

Tone: Positive 0.55

Management emphasized improving operations, constructive markets, and transaction readiness, while acknowledging safety, permitting, and cost risks.

Who spoke

Company

  • Louis LangloisInvestor Relations
  • William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer
  • Molly BeermanExecutive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Analysts

  • Carlos de AlbaAnalyst, Morgan Stanley
  • Timna TannersAnalyst, Wells Fargo
  • Nick GilesAnalyst, B. Riley
  • Katja JancicAnalyst, BMO
  • Bill PetersonAnalyst, JPMorgan
  • Lawson WinderAnalyst, Bank of America
  • Unidentified AnalystAnalyst, Barclays

Full transcript

Analyst questions are marked with a bar. Timestamps are into the recording.

Prepared remarks

00:00

Good afternoon, and welcome to the Acoa Corporation third quarter, 2026, earning presentation and conference call. All participants will be in a listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star, then one on your phone. To withdraw your question, please press star, then two. Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Louis Langlois, Senior Vice President of Treasury and Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

00:39

Louis LangloisInvestor Relations

Thank you and good day, everyone. I'm joined today by William Aplinger, Alcoa Corporation President and Chief Executive Officer, and Molly Bierman, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. We will take your questions after comments by Bill and Molly. As a reminder, today's discussion will contain forward-looking statements relating to future events and expectations that are subject to various assumptions and caveats. Factors that may cause the company's actual results to differ materially from these statements are included in today's presentation and in our SEC filings. In addition, we have included some non-GAAP financial measures in this presentation.

For historical non-GAAP financial measures, reconciliation to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures can be found in the appendix to today's presentation. We have not presented quantitative reconciliations of certain forward-looking non-GAAP financial measures for reasons noted on this slide. Any reference in our discussion today to EBITDA means adjusted EBITDA.

Finally, as previously announced, the earnings press release and slide presentation are available on our website. Now I'd like to turn over the call to Bill.

02:00

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

Thank you, Louis, and welcome to our third quarter 2026 earnings conference call. Before discussing our results, I want to address the tragic fatality that occurred on September 16th at our Alumar smelter in Brazil. The loss of one of our colleagues has deeply affected all of us at Alcoa, and our thoughts remain with his family, friends, and coworkers.

We are a company grounded in our values, act with integrity, operate with excellence, care for people, and lead with courage. Safety is fundamental to our values, and it guides how we run our business. There is no production target, financial result, or business objective that is more important than ensuring every employee and contractor returns home safely every day.

Over many years, we have strengthened our safety systems and dedicated significant resources to improving safety performance. Those efforts have resulted in meaningful progress in many areas of our business. But when we lose a colleague, progress is not enough. I am personally committed to ensuring we learn from this event and take the actions necessary to strengthen our safety culture, reduce risk across our operations, and hold ourselves accountable to the highest safety standards. This tragedy reinforces that safety requires relentless focus, constant vigilance, and an unwavering commitment from every one of us every day.

With that commitment firmly in mind, I'll now turn to our third quarter results. We continued to build operational momentum and delivered strong third quarter performance. We achieved six year-to-date production records, increased aluminum production by approximately 15,000 metric tons sequentially, completed the IMR smelter restart, and delivered a significant performance recovery at the Pingeria refinery. Together, these results demonstrate improving stability and disciplined execution across the portfolio. We reached a definitive agreement for the sale of a portion of the Messina East site with potential cash proceeds of up to $315 million.

We expect to receive the first $50 million to $65 million at closing, which is anticipated within six months, subject to customary permitting, regulatory approvals, key development, and closing conditions. We expect to receive the remaining cash consideration before the end of the decade, although the agreement provides up to seven years for commissioning. This is the first transaction supporting our target to generate $500 million to $1 billion from asset monetization by 2030.

The Alley Group acquisition continues to advance. The asset's strong first-half 2026 performance reinforces our confidence in the strategic and financial rationale for the transaction. South 32 shareholders approved the transaction, bringing us another step closer to our expected closing in the first half of 2027. Let me now provide an update on our progress toward transaction closing.

Since announcing the Alley Group acquisition on June 30th, we have made meaningful progress towards closing. In September, we completed the $2.6 billion debt financing and canceled the bridge facility. Completing the financing early reduced execution risk and provides certainty around funding the cash consideration. We estimate that the locked box value was more than $300 million at the end of the quarter, based on publicly available information, including production guidance provided by SAL 32.

The regulatory approval process is progressing well across the relevant jurisdictions. Earlier this month, I met with President Ramaphosa and other key stakeholders in South Africa. Our engagement with stakeholders has been positive, and we remain confident in securing the required approvals to meet our expected first half of 2027 closing timeline. Our transition and integration teams are actively preparing for ownership of the assets. This work spans the organization and is focused on maintaining operational continuity, positioning us to capture the value of the combined portfolio, and ensuring we are ready to execute following closing and beginning delivering synergies and broader benefits of the transaction.

Until then, the businesses will continue to operate independently. Now I'll turn it over to Molly to review the financial results.

06:26

Molly BeermanExecutive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Thank you, Bill. Third quarter revenue was $3.7 billion, with a sequential change primarily reflecting lower metal prices. In the alumina segment, third-party revenue increased by 7% to $680 million, resulting from higher realized alumina prices and higher alumina shipping volumes. In the aluminum segment, third-party revenue was $3 billion, primarily reflecting lower metal prices and normalized shipment levels following the second quarter's inventory repositioning, partially offset by higher value-add product premiums. Third quarter net income attributable to Alcoa was $483 million versus the prior quarter of $407 million, with earnings per common share increasing to $1.81 per share.

On an adjusted basis, net income attributable to Alcoa remained strong at $485 million, compared with $562 million in the second quarter. Let's discuss the factors affecting adjusted EBITDA. Adjusted EBITDA was $789 million as strong operational performance and higher alumina prices partially offset lower metal prices. The alumina segment adjusted EBITDA increased $95 million on higher realized alumina prices and improved operational performance at Panjara as we regained stability in the third quarter. The aluminum segment continued to deliver productivity gains, including higher molten production, improved stability, and disciplined cost performance.

These benefits were more than offset by the impact of lower metal prices, lower shipments, and higher carbon costs, resulting in segment-adjusted EBITDA of $862 million.

Moving to cash flow activities for the third quarter of 2026. We ended the third quarter with a cash balance of $4.4 billion, which includes $2.6 billion of cash proceeds from the bond issue completed in September. Together with cash on hand, the net proceeds from the bond issue will be used to fund the $3.1 billion cash consideration to the Alley Group acquisition at closing.

Securing the financing now avoids access and pricing risks in a volatile bond market. The quantum issue also reflects the strength of our balance sheet and cash position, resulting from consecutive quarters of robust free cash flow generation. In the third quarter, cash from operations was $643 million, and free cash flow was $472 million, supported by strong EBITDA in the aluminum segment, where the company was able to deliver metal prices to the bottom line.

Turning to our key financial metrics for the third quarter and year-to-date 2026. Return on equity through the first nine months of 2026 was 25.3%. Year-to-date, we have returned $80 million in cash to shareholders through our regular quarterly dividend. The company generated free cash flow of approximately $600 million in the first nine months of the year. As we look toward closing the Ali Group acquisition, our strengthened balance sheet, secured financing, and substantial cash position provide ample capacity to fund the transaction.

This is the result of disciplined capital allocation, strong cash generation, and consistent operating performance. Moving on to the outlook. For the four outlook shown here we have made only minor adjustments for transformation expenses depreciation interest expense and capital expenditures For the fourth quarter, we continue to expect strong operating performance across both segments, continuing the momentum from the third quarter. We are expecting higher production and shipments in both segments as the improved refining system stability is maintained And the smelting portfolio continues to deliver productivity through incremental output and cost discipline.

While we expect some higher direct input costs from elevated market prices and planned maintenance to support continued operational stability, the underlying performance remains very strong headed into the final quarter of the year.

Please refer to the business considerations on slide 34 of this presentation for additional details on the fourth quarter outlook. Now I'll turn it back to Bill.

11:08

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, Molly. In Illumina, the market tightened outside China during the quarter, with the API increasing sequentially to approximately $370 for a metric ton. We expect further tightening in the fourth quarter and into 2027, driven by announced curtailments and project delays and uncertainty in Indonesia around new supply additions. At the same time, recovering aluminum production in the Middle East and continued smelter ramp-ups in Indonesia should support additional aluminum demand.

While the timing of some capacity coming online remains uncertain, the overall market condition is constructive. China remains well supplied from within the region as new refinery capacity has increased production and inventories. This continues to create a clear divergence between softer market conditions in China and tightening fundamentals outside China. Bauxite prices also increased sequentially, with SIF China pricing reaching approximately $73 per dry metric ton.

The increase was driven primarily by higher freight costs. For Alcoa, strengthening aluminum market conditions and improved operational execution create meaningful upside. Our focus remains on operating our refinery safely and reliably, sustaining the recent performance improvement at Pajera, and maintaining disciplined cost management.

Moving on to aluminum. Aluminum price is moderated from recent highs, but remains supported by constructive market fundamentals. On the supply side, production is gradually recovering as Middle East smelters restart and Indonesian capacity ramps up. The timing of a full recovery to pre-conflict production levels in the Middle East remains uncertain. Global aluminum inventories remain historically low at approximately 42 days of consumption, leaving the market with limited capacity to absorb further supply disruptions or stronger than expected demand. The Midwest, Rotterdam, and Japan regional premiums have moderated from elevated levels but remain supported by low inventories and regional deficits.

This tightness is particularly relevant in North America and Europe, both of which remain structurally short of metal. For Acoa, our regional presence, reliable supply, and differentiated product portfolio are important elements of our commercial value proposition. Our order book remains solid with significantly less volume available for sale than at this point last year. Most products are sold out or tightly committed. Packaging and electrical markets continue to lead demand. Transportation remains resilient, and construction, particularly in Europe, remains the softest end market.

Customer sentiment is cautious but constructive, with continued interest in secure supply and long-term agreements. Before we wrap up, I'd like to return to the three priorities we set at Investor Day nearly a year ago.

First, operational excellence. As I stated at the top of our call, safety remains our top priority and the foundation of operational excellence. We are strengthening critical risk controls, leadership behaviors, and accountability. We are delivering greater stability across the portfolio, setting production records, and improving productivity. We have now completed the restarts at both the San Ciprian and Alumar smelters.

While the Western Australia EPA's review of our mine plan continues to advance, we are preparing our teams to execute the upcoming mine moves. The mining approvals are taking longer than expected. Several steps remain, including the appeals process and final ministerial decisions, and we now expect the process to extend into 2027. Our confidence in ultimately securing the approvals has not changed.

We have incorporated an additional six months of mining in current areas into our plans, and approvals by mid-2027 are not expected to further materially affect supply, quality, or cost. We also have contingency plans available if needed.

Second, value-creating growth. At Investor Day, we were clear that we would pursue growth only where we see a compelling path to long-term shareholder value. The Ali Group acquisition reflects that discipline, and we will apply the same standard to any future opportunities. We will not pursue growth for growth's sake.

Third, disciplined capital allocation. We ended the third quarter with a strong balance sheet, supported by robust year-to-date free cash flow. We structured the alley group considerations such that pro forma leverage approximates a manageable 1.5 times.

Following closing of the acquisition, delevering will be our priority. We expect to use various sources of cash, such as free cash flow generation, locked box cash from the transaction, proceeds from additional transformation asset sales, and the monetization of our modern shares to reduce debt over time. Given the stronger through-cycle cash flow generation of the combined portfolio, we will update our adjusted net debt target at the transaction closing.

The Messina East Agreement also represents meaningful progress against our asset monetization strategy. These actions demonstrate that we are executing the strategy we presented at Investor Day and strengthening Alcoa for long-term value creation.

To wrap up, we are proud of what we accomplished in the third quarter, excited about the opportunities ahead and confident in our ability to deliver value for our shareholders.

With that, operator, please begin the Q&A session.

Questions and answers

16:50

Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star, then one on your phone. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. To withdraw your question, please press star, then two. When called upon, please limit yourself to two questions. And our first question comes from Carlos de Alba with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

17:18

Carlos de AlbaAnalyst, Morgan Stanley

Yeah, thank you very much. Good afternoon, Bill and Molly. So the first question that I have is on the guidance. So maybe flat alumina, it's a little bit surprising to us given what we believe has been higher spot prices in recent months. And I know there's some lagging effects there, but that was a little bit of a surprise to us. Maybe could you explain if there are any cost pressures that may be behind this, you know, upsetting some of the improved top line?

17:53

Molly BeermanExecutive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

So, Carlos, our guidance of flat refers just to our performance elements and not the market. If you look at our Illumina segment, there are a couple puts and takes. We have some maintenance moving between regions, but that is completely covered by our improved shipment performance. So, overall, the performance elements are a net of nothing, so flat and consistent with the strong performance in the third quarter. Just so it's clear, Carlos, the guidance doesn't include pricing. So if prices get better during the course of the quarter, and they're better today than they were a quarter ago, it'll flow through.

18:38

Carlos de AlbaAnalyst, Morgan Stanley

Right. Okay. Yeah. I got confused when I was looking at the consensus and our estimates. And this will happen, but okay, that makes sense. Then, I was curious to see aluminum production higher in the third quarter, but your aluminum shipments being a little bit lower. Was there any inventory buildup, any delays in shipments that maybe you will catch up a little bit more in this current quarter? Any color there would be great.

19:10

Molly BeermanExecutive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

So, Carlos, remember in the second quarter, we sold the inventory that we had repositioned in the first quarter. So, that was about 30,000 metric tons. So, that did not repeat in the third quarter. But we had a strong third quarter in terms of shipment, other than that repositioning that did not recur.

19:30

Carlos de AlbaAnalyst, Morgan Stanley

All right. Fair enough. Thank you very much.

19:34

The next question will come from Tim Natanners with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

19:40

Timna TannersAnalyst, Wells Fargo

Yeah, hey, good afternoon. I think it's appropriate to touch base about the potential carve out on aluminum prices or aluminum tariffs for Canada because that happened during the quarter and would be great to get your take on anything you know about whether or not that's still in discussions and what that could mean for Alcoa.

20:02

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, Tim. No, we don't know what discussions are going on between the U. S. and Canada. We've offered support to both governments to provide data and information to help them come to a conclusion on any discussion that may be going on. What really matters is whether the US will remain short right And if Canada were completely carved out or if Canada had a lower tariff we believe that still the marginal ton will come from outside of North America and therefore the Midwest premium still should remain strong But at this point it just speculation Okay, fair.

20:45

Timna TannersAnalyst, Wells Fargo

Thank you for that. And then I also wanted to get your take on how you get comfortable with the Indonesian ramp up that you alluded to. Some of the forecasters for some pretty aggressive volume increases. Does Indonesian government seem to be aware of the risk to the aluminum price like what they saw with the nickel price in the last several years? What's your take on the additional supply and how much could come on in Indonesia and what timeframe? And it'd be great to get also your latest thinking on China producing over itself and pull cap on aluminum as well. Thanks.

21:21

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

Okay. Yeah, so a lot of questions baked in there. When I look at the rest of this year, 2026, we've actually seen strength of aluminum pricing due to the ramp up of the smelters and the return of some of the capacity in the Middle East. So that's actually a positive for us. In January, we'll give you a better view of what our full year supply demand picture looks like. But to give you a little bit of a highlight, we are thinking that we are going to see probably a million and a half metric tons of smelting capacity come online in Indonesia next year. You know, on a 75 million metric ton market, that's, you know, it's a material number, but we think that the market will be able to absorb it.

And then you asked about the China cap. Hey, you know, the Chinese smelters, it feels as if the China cap is more of a policy tool to set a limit than a firm cap, In that they're allowing some of the Chinese smelters to creep a little bit, but not a massive jump in capacity. So, for instance, we're seeing China capacity being or production being around 45.8 million metric tons in 2026.

That's 400,000 tons over than the nominal cap level. But it seems that they're holding from a capacity side and allowing maybe a little bit of production creep.

23:01

Timna TannersAnalyst, Wells Fargo

Okay. Always appreciate your perspective. Thank you.

23:06

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, Jim.

23:06

The next question will come from Nick Giles with B. Riley. Please go ahead.

23:14

Nick GilesAnalyst, B. Riley

Yeah, thanks, operator. Good afternoon, guys. The aluminum equities as a whole have been under significant pressure. And so, Bill, I was just curious where, you know, in terms of capital allocation, share repurchases would stand at this point. Thanks.

23:31

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

So we're going to, and Nick, thanks for the question. We're pursuing the closure of the South32 Alley Group transaction in the first half of next year. Clearly, we went out and raised debt in order to be able to pay the cash component of that. Recognize the fact that cash component out is 3.1. We only raised 2.6 because we're going to use some of the cash from the balance sheet. We will get that deal, well, we anticipate getting that deal closed in the first half, and then the priority after that closure will be rapid delevering. And clearly the cash generation that we are seeing today will allow us to delever rather quickly. We alluded to the fact that we think there's $300 million of cash in the lockbox.

That will certainly go into the cash consideration, but at this point, the target is delevering.

24:34

Nick GilesAnalyst, B. Riley

Bill Walsh, Ph. D. : Understood. No, I appreciate that perspective, Bill. My second question was, you made a comment about the WA EPA approvals being pushed out by six months and that there were some contingencies baked in there. I was hoping you could expand on what those contingencies were and what you would do in case that drags on further. Thank you.

24:57

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

So the contingencies are clearly that we are resequencing and modifying our mining activities. We're looking at different production schedules and really going to continue to dig in the mines that we're in. And we feel confident that we'll not have a negative impact, or I should say a further negative impact on the box site supply or quality. Beyond the first six months, we'll have to make some harder decisions, and we're confident that we will get those approvals within the first six months of next year.

25:40

Nick GilesAnalyst, B. Riley

Okay, good to hear. Appreciate the color and continued best of luck. Thanks.

25:47

The next question will come from Katja Jankic with BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

25:53

Katja JancicAnalyst, BMO

Hi, thank you for taking my questions. Maybe starting on the contingency value as part of the acquisition, is it fair to assume that that is starting to accrue on the alumina side since the alumina price is now above the strike? Or how should you think about that?

26:11

Molly BeermanExecutive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, Katja, if the current, the third quarter average LME was about 32.20s, I can't remember the exact number, but that would yield about a $13 million payment for the first period. So not substantial.

26:28

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

But Katja was referencing Illumina prices? The Illumina price, sorry, there's nothing due on Illumina. We've not reached that strike price. At today's levels, Katja, at $3.87 today, we're not at the strike price yet.

26:44

Katja JancicAnalyst, BMO

Okay. And then maybe on the asset monetization, I think in the past you said that there are two other assets that could quickly follow Messina East. Can you provide an update on that?

26:56

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

There's two other assets that could quickly follow Messina East. Yeah, I'm just joking around, Katya. You know, we just got, we're pleased to be able to announce the Messina East transaction, and you can see from the way it's structured, it's somewhat of a complex transaction. It gives us some cash up front, but it will give us cash further over the next five years as that data center first gets built and then gets increased in size. So it gives us a lot of upside. There are two other ones that we believe that could happen quickly after that. We've not named those publicly, but now that we at least have an agreement and we have to get it closed, at least we have an agreement on Messina East, we're going to focus on those next two.

So more to come.

27:45

Katja JancicAnalyst, BMO

Perfect. Thank you.

27:45

Again, if you'd like to ask a question, please press star, then one. The next question will come from Bill Peterson with J. P. Morgan. Please go ahead.

28:01

Bill PetersonAnalyst, JPMorgan

Hi, good afternoon, and thanks for taking the question. Maybe actually piggybacking on this vicinity agreement, will you know the, I guess, the final amount upon the approval of the capacity, or is this something that, as it grows, the potential for, I guess, up to the $250 million additional? I'm just trying to get a sense of when we'll know what kind of value you get. And I guess maybe more importantly, is this going to be kind of a similar template for these future agreements, or is this maybe viewed as more of a one-off?

28:33

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

So, Bill, I'll start with the, on the size, we do have a, or the permitting, where initially the minimum will be 180 megawatts, and then we have two step ups potentially, another 300, and then another 200. So, the site could be up to 635 megawatts. So, depending on how the permitting and approvals go, then we will know the size. But the first payment at closing will be based on the initial permitting and will be at that minimum level initially.

And as far as your question goes on whether this is a template, I think the answer, Bill, is a resounding no, that there is not a particular template for data center sales. What we are finding is that in order to maximize value out of each site, you have to really negotiate particular parts of the agreement on each site. And so there may be, out of one of those two that are coming up, similar structures, but we would also be pushing structures that would be more cash up front and less future value. So there's not a single template for these transactions because each site has its own complexity.

29:57

Bill PetersonAnalyst, JPMorgan

Okay, well understood. Appreciate that. And then I want to kind of understand some of the cost, you know, guidance for Illumina and Aluminum. And I think it's around $30 million for each, but I'm trying to get a sense for how sticky they are. And I guess, you know, one of them in the case of Aluminum, you know, try to unpack what higher, you know, the raw materials costs are.

And then, similarly with Lumina, with, you know, presumably caustic and how sticky that may be.

30:25

Molly BeermanExecutive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Yeah Bill if you think back I start with caustic You know in the second quarter early after the war began we saw the caustic price shoot up That didn stay though It moderated pretty quickly And so as I look at now caustic rolling through the P from those high purchase prices we are not seeing a material sequential impact from that On the carbon prices though we are seeing elevation When we guided in the second quarter for the third we thought it would only be about a 15 million impact It ended up being just over 20 So carbon prices rolling through the P perspective just over 20 million in the third quarter and I have about 10 million more in carbon prices coming up further in the fourth quarter Now, fourth quarter purchase prices are still coming up, but very slightly, so we're not seeing the price escalation.

31:22

Bill PetersonAnalyst, JPMorgan

And I just wanted to make sure I'm following back up. I thought your comment was something to the effect that $30 million increase in each segment. That's not the case.

31:36

Molly BeermanExecutive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

It's flat in alumina and a $30 million increase in aluminum. So I just wanted to make sure that that's clear.

And of that 30 in aluminum, of that 30 in aluminum 10 is the carbon.

31:52

Bill PetersonAnalyst, JPMorgan

Okay. Yeah, no, that's fair enough. Thank you.

31:56

The next question will come from Lawson Winder with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

32:01

Lawson WinderAnalyst, Bank of America

Thank you, Operator, and good evening, Bill and Molly. Thank you for today's update. If I could just follow up on the Messina East sale, one thing that wasn't clear is after closing, are there any environmental remediation or demolition or any sort of other legacy liabilities that sit with Alcoa, or does that just pass on to the buyer?

32:25

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

No, we will keep the remediation responsibilities. We're continuing to remediate at the site. We are selling the parts of the land that has already completed all of our environmental and remediation work.

32:40

Lawson WinderAnalyst, Bank of America

Okay, fantastic. Thank you. And then just one additional question. Again, of course, quite a bit of talk about the Alley Group opportunity and what an opportunity it is. When you look at the potential M&A opportunity set globally, I mean, do you continue to see other unique opportunities like Ali Group, and what sort of appetite does Alcoa have for further acquisitions post the closing of Ali Group?

33:12

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

Ali Group's a big acquisition for us. Let us get this one closed before we start talking about other opportunities. What I really want to prove to the world through this acquisition is that, number one, we can grow this company, and number two, we can successfully integrate an acquisition. We have a pretty large team that's already in place that's working toward the integration so that when we close on day one, we're going to be ready to integrate this. And I mentioned in my prepared remarks that I was already over in South Africa, met with the president of South Africa, President Ramaphosa, got a very good greeting introduction from him to the country, and impressed on him that we're an aluminum company.

We want to own Hillside. We want to be in Hillside for the long term, and we're committed to the aluminum industry. So we're going to focus on getting this one done first before we talk about other opportunities.

34:19

Lawson WinderAnalyst, Bank of America

Okay. I appreciate that commentary. Thank you both very much.

34:24

The next question will come from Richard, Dr. Terenna, with Barclays. Please go ahead.

34:31

Unidentified AnalystAnalyst, Barclays

Great. Thanks for taking my question. The first question was basically when you think about the acquisition and you've gotten approvals from South32 shareholders, looking ahead, is there anything – what are you doing right now in terms of potentially getting – preparing for the eventual integration? Can you do some pre-planning, or do you have to wait for any country approvals, the contracts on the procurement side, anything that you can sort of do to help accelerate the capture of synergies? Right.

35:04

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

So we're really focused on two things currently between now and closing. One is gaining the required regulatory approvals, and there's about a dozen of those, And we have gotten some of those. And at this point, we do not see any red flags associated with getting the regulatory approvals. Secondly, we have taken the last 60 days or so to stand up a significant integration management office. And they are preparing to be able to run those assets from day one. And you think about the complexity of buying assets of these size, it's not a small undertaking. And so they're focused on being able to sell, make, account for bauxite alumina and aluminum, and so it's not a small undertaking, and we're very focused on it.

Molly, I know you're very close to this also. Do you want to make any other comments?

36:13

Molly BeermanExecutive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

I'll just add that we do have an 18-month transition service agreement with South32, so we will have coverage past legal day one, but we're preparing now for all that work ahead so that we can, as soon as we close, start working closely with the teams on integrating the organization, the systems, processes, and leveraging all of the synergies that we have identified.

36:36

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

And I should have made it clear, even pre-close, the two companies are working together to make sure that it's a successful, in their case, disposition, in our case, acquisition.

36:49

Unidentified AnalystAnalyst, Barclays

Thanks. That's very helpful. And then maybe I can ask a question on the industry in general. You talked about the Middle East looking at ramping up smelting capacity. Thank you.

37:28

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

If I wax philosophically just for a second, I think the world has changed when it comes to aluminum within the straight of Hormuz. And I think it's going to be a while before that completely gets normalized of flows in and out. And so I think it is a big impact. You see it in pricing today, even though prices are off from where they were. We're still sitting at close to $3,000 a ton.

And so it has had a big impact, and I think it will still have a big impact going forward.

38:05

Unidentified AnalystAnalyst, Barclays

Right.

38:10

The next question is a follow-up from Tim Natanners of Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

38:16

Timna TannersAnalyst, Wells Fargo

Yeah, I just wanted to follow up, if I could, on working capital. There's a big seasonal use in Q1. We really haven't seen much released. If we see aluminum prices stay at this level, I would imagine you could see a pretty nice release. I just wondered, to the extent possible, if you could give us any color about what you might expect at these prices hold into the fourth quarter.

38:37

Molly BeermanExecutive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

If you look at on a day's working capital basis and look back in history, we traditionally step down from like that 50-day level down into the 35 to 40 level. So I would expect we'll release about 10 days at least going into the fourth quarter. Now, obviously, the quantum there will depend on the pricing at the end of the year, but that's our expectation.

39:00

Timna TannersAnalyst, Wells Fargo

Got it. That was all for me. Thank you.

39:04

The next question is a follow-up from Carlos de Alba with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

39:10

Carlos de AlbaAnalyst, Morgan Stanley

Yeah, just on the approvals for the Anygroup transaction, do you require China approval?

39:17

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

No. All right, thanks.

39:18

Carlos de AlbaAnalyst, Morgan Stanley

And then on the Messina EAST transaction, the step-ups in capacity, is that solely based on regulatory approval, or how do you make sure that it is not a decision of the data center, or maybe the economics change, and they don't want to do the, Step one or step two of the increased capacity.

39:54

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

Carlos, in my view, they are very interested in putting the maximum capacity within Messina East. The economics for them work much better as the facility gets larger. So it will be based on how quickly, I guess a couple of things, how much demand there is, How much regulatory approvals that they get. So those are the two real big issues, and I guess how much capital they ultimately have. But my view is they want to see this as large as it possibly can be because I believe their economics get significantly better as it gets larger.

40:36

Carlos de AlbaAnalyst, Morgan Stanley

Thanks for having me.

40:37

This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Opplinger for closing remarks.

40:48

William OplingerPresident and Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, Operator, and thank you all for joining our call. Molly and I look forward to sharing further progress when we speak again in January. This concludes the call.

40:48

Thank you. The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

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