Babcock & Wilcox Enterprises (BW) Q2 2023 earnings call transcript

Hello all and a warm welcome to Babcock's and Wilcox second quarter 2023 earnings conference call. My name is Louisa and I'll be your moderator for today. You will have the opportunity to ask a question once you reach the question and answer portion. You may do so by pressing star followed by one on your telephone keypad when we come to that stage. And I have the pleasure of turning over to your host today, Sharon Brooks. So Sharon, please go ahead when you're ready.

Thank you, Louisa, and thanks everyone for joining us on Babcock & Wilcox Enterprises' second quarter 2023 earnings conference call. I'm Sharon Brooks, Director of Communications. Joining the call today are Kenny Young, B&W's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Lou Salamone, Chief Financial Officer, to discuss our second quarter results. During this call, certain statements we make will be forward-looking. These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, including those set forth in our safe harbor provision for forward-looking statements that can be found at the end of our earnings press release and also in our Form 10-Q that will be filed today, and our Form 10-K that is on file with the SEC, and provide further detail about the risks related to our business.

Additionally, except as required by law, we undertake no obligation to update any forward-looking statement. We also provide non-GAAP information regarding certain of our historical and targeted results to supplement the results provided in accordance with GAAP. This information should not be considered superior to or as a substitute for the comparable GAAP measures. A reconciliation of historical non-GAAP measures can be found in our second quarter earnings release published this afternoon and in our I will now turn the call over to Kenny.

Thanks, Sharon, and thanks to everyone for joining us this afternoon. Well, as mentioned in our earnings release, we exceeded our company expectations in revenues and adjusted EBITDA for the second quarter of 2023, demonstrating the continued momentum we've experienced Revenues across all segments posted a second consecutive quarter of double-digit revenue expansion on a year-over-year basis, with renewable, environmental, and thermal increasing by 31%, 54%, and 36%, respectively. In tandem, we recognized an underlying improvement in revenue-adjusted EBITDA and net loss on a year-over-year basis, despite increased spending in support of our emerging and new technologies in our renewable energy segment. These investments include sales, marketing, engineering, research and development, and back office services, and are all important to support future growth from our clean energy segments.

We are seeing our pipeline increasing to $9 billion of new projects over the next three years, which again does not include our continued strong parts and services platform. In fact, we are seeing more than $1 billion in Bright Loop opportunities alone, and we'll be sharing more about that later on this call. Our bookings in renewable increased by 28% in Q2 of 2023 versus Q2 of 2022. Our environmental segment was consistent and held approximately the same amount of bookings and backlog year over year. Earlier, thermal bookings were lower quarter over quarter, primarily due to a large equipment supply and construction project that we announced in 2022. However, thermal parts bookings increased by 17% year over year, quarter over quarter.

Overall, our backlog was lower quarter over quarter by 6%, again, due to the large thermal project mentioned previously in 2022. But our outlook for new booking opportunities remains robust, and we are projecting backlog to grow significantly to a range of $850 to $1 billion by year-end 2023, which includes key projects in both thermal and renewable. If achieved, this would represent a growth of 20 to 40 percent in total company bookings and backlog by year-end 2023.

Our parts and services business in the second quarter continued to support our revenue generation, accounting for nearly 37 percent of the company's total revenues. The thermal segment was a large driving factor as we maintain a vital role in supporting the broad demand for energy security among global expansion and gas conversion efforts. We see thermal parts and services returning to normal levels, which is reflected in our revenues and full-year expectations. In addition, our global reach and our renewable services, especially in Europe, was in line with our outlook at the start of the year and is expected to remain strong through the remainder of 2023.

As I mentioned earlier, our project bookings within our clean energy technologies continues to grow, and most notably, the interest across our ClimateBright decarbonization platform continues to increase. In July, we announced that B&W received a contract award from North Star Clean Energy to conduct an engineering study of our salt-bright carbon dioxide capture process to convert a coal-fired power plant to biomass fuel. This study is the first phase of a commercial scale project partially funded by the U. S. Department of Energy and marks an integral step towards our anticipated large scale commercial project to retrofit Filer City Station's power plant with biomass and decarbonization technologies to replace coal. When complete, the 75-megawatt power plant would use sustainable biomass as a fuel to generate power with net negative CO2, providing power to more than 70,000 homes.

We are excited to bring our clean energy technology to the market and further advance North Star's decarbonization efforts. In addition, you should watch for an important announcement from the Governor of West Virginia about a hydrogen project developed by our partners at Fidelis. This new opportunity is based on previous Fidelis H2 announcements, and we are excited to be part of this developing next step in clean power generation in West Virginia. That announcement will be made tomorrow morning around 10.30 a. m. Eastern Time. With regard to our renewable project developments, we are pleased with the recent demand we have had within our solar business as well. Despite the headwinds within the residential solar space that you've probably read about recently, the tailwinds across the U. S. for both community and commercial solar projects continues to grow.

Our recent contract award totaling over $20 million by Summit Ridge Energy for roughly 25 megawatts of community solar energy projects in Illinois reinforces this point. This contract marks another successful collaboration between B&W and Summit Ridge Energy and demonstrates the increasing demand in community and utility-scale solar projects. We are in negotiations on additional solar projects that, when combined with the recent Summit Ridge Energy announcements, would equate to approximately $100 million in solar bookings in the second half of 2023. That is roughly double the amount of bookings in 2022. We are also increasing our investments in solar business, which in the long run will help position the company for improved gross margin and operating margins on a run rate basis by year end.

This includes back office systems and support, increased self-performance, as well as site management. Transitioning to our Bright Loop Hydrogen Generation Technology, we are pleased to report several key developments, including announcing a dedicated organization within Babcock & Wilcox, led by our Chief Strategy and Technology Officer, Brandi Johnson, to drive our execution and ramp-up of our initial commercial projects in Wyoming and Louisiana. For market clarity, we are redefining our Bright Loop systems as small, medium, and large for now to demonstrate their ability to meet demand at all sizes.

Initially, we are planning to deliver medium platforms in Wyoming and Louisiana with scale-up to the larger platforms planned for both sites. Just yesterday, we announced an offtake agreement with General Hydrogen to acquire both hydrogen and CO2 from our medium-sized biomass Bright Loop platform. We are also in formal discussions with another global syngas company to sign an additional offtake for hydrogen from both a medium and large platform. The Louisiana projects will produce an initial hydrogen output of approximately 10 to 15 tons per day for industrial use with an anticipated scale-up to large unit hydrogen production by the second half of 2029. This timeline closely reflects the development plans in place for our Wyoming project with initial hydrogen production output of approximately 10 to 15 tons per day by mid-2025 with anticipated scale-up to a large unit hydrogen production by the second half of 2028.

Also, we have demand for one or two smaller platforms, roughly one to three tons of hydrogen per day, and are determined to have one of those sites producing hydrogen by the end of 2024. For our upcoming small and medium scale projects, we've outlined projected development plans with the timeline for initial hydrogen production in 2024. Meanwhile, while BrightLuke financing efforts continue to develop, our confidence remains strong. We anticipate funding coming from state and local governments, as well as investments from various pension funds and in customers, as well as Babcock & Wilcox. We are seeking direct financing either at the project level or through B&W directed towards specific projects. Longer term, we continue working with various Department of Energy and DOE loan program offices, including congressionally approved appropriations funding directed towards the funding of hydrogen demonstration using chemical looping.

Our pipeline, as previously mentioned, is over $9 billion across all three segments, and we currently have, as mentioned previously, approximately $1 billion in bright Get opportunities alone We believe this puts us on a pathway to reach billion in bookings by 2028 with combinations of small medium and large projects We feel confident that could lead to billion in revenues by 2030 and beyond That will still only represent roughly 1 of the market share of total hydrogen spend by 2030 To give more clarity, roughly and of course depending on specific site factors, the revenues associated with the small projects will equate to roughly $5 to $40 million per unit. Revenues for the medium units will be roughly $40 to $100 million per unit.

And revenues for large units will be approximately $150 to $400 million per unit. These revenues should bring 20% to 25% gross margin, plus following revenues of a – I'm sorry, 25% gross margin. The follow-on revenues of approximately $200,000 to $250,000 per ton of hydrogen produced in services and particle support per day will produce even higher margins. You will find more details in the new Bright Loop deck posted to our website today, and we've also included some of the new Bright Loop slides in our investor deck as well. Given the strong financial performance that has continued throughout the year paired with our seasonally strong third and fourth quarter results, which are cyclically second half weighted, we are confident in our ability to achieve our full year 2023 adjusted EBITDA target of $100 to $120 million, while continuing to balance our investments in future growth along with adjusted EBITDA performance.

I'll now turn the call over to Lou to discuss the financial details of the second quarter in 2023. Lou?

Thanks, Kenny. I'm pleased to discuss our second quarter results, further details of which can be found in our 10-Q that was filed with the SEC today. Our second quarter consolidated revenues were $305.2 million, which is a 38% improvement compared to the second quarter of 2022. This is primarily attributable to higher volumes in our renewable segment due to renewable service and our solar-based businesses, higher overall volume in our environmental segment, and increasing thermal segment volume due to higher levels of construction and parts activity. Our net operating income in the second quarter of 2023 was $7 million as compared to an operating income of $3.7 million in the second quarter of 2022. This second quarter included a one-time gain on a sale of an asset.

Our adjusted EBITDA was $21.9 million compared to $22.9 million in the second quarter of 2022, which, when adjusted for the one-time sale of the asset in the second quarter of 2022, represents a significant improvement in adjusted EBITDA from $15.9 million to $21.9 million. Bookings in the second quarter of 2023 were $191 million, and we had an ending backlog of $567 million. Our loss per share in the second quarter was $0.10 compared to a loss per share of $0.07 in the second quarter of 2022, or a loss in 2022, a loss per share on an underlying basis when excluding a non-cash pension benefit of $7.4 million, and this also included the one-time gain on the sale of the asset, which I previously mentioned.

I'll now discuss our second quarter segment results. Within our Babcock & Wilcox renewable segment, revenues were $98.9 million for the second quarter of 2023, which is an increase of 31% compared to the $75.2 million in the second quarter of 2022. This increase in revenues primarily due to higher volume associated with our renewable services business and our solar businesses.

Adjusted to the bidon the second quarter of 2023 was $500,000 as compared to $4.2 million when excluding a non-recurring $7 million gain from the sale related to development rights of a future solar project in the second quarter of 2022. Within the Babcock & Wilcox environmental segment, revenues were $48.7 million in the second quarter of 2023, which is an increase of 54% when compared to $31.6 million in the second quarter of 2022.

This increase is primarily driven by overall higher volume of dry cooling technology projects across the environmental segment. Adjusted EBITDA was $3.4 million for the quarter compared to $600,000 for the same period last year. Again, primarily driven by higher revenue volume as described above.

Turning to our Babcock & Wilcox thermal segment, revenues were $158 million in the second quarter of 2023, which represents an increase of 36% compared to the $116.3 million in the second quarter of 2022. And this was primarily attributable to the higher level of volume in our construction projects and our package boiler business. Adjusted EBITDA in the second quarter of 2023 was $24.4 million, which is an increase of 49% compared to the $16.4 million in the second quarter of 2022.

This is, again, primarily driven by the higher revenue volume described above, as well as better project performance. I will now turn to our balance sheet, cash flow and liquidity. Total debt at June 30, 2023 was $358.2 million, and the company had a cash, cash equivalents, and restricted cash balances of $83.9 million at the end of June 30, 2023. I will now turn it back to Kenny.

Thanks, Lou. Well, in closing, we continue to position Babcock & Wilcox as the leader within the broader clean energy transition, further developing our suite of decarbonization solutions while continuing to support our thermal customers. With our line of sight into expanding new bookings, opportunities, and expanded pipeline of over $9 billion in identified global projects, including our BrightLoop hydrogen generation technology, we are excited about the remainder of 2023 and the industry tailwinds in place for 2024 and beyond. Our momentum in the first half of the year wouldn't have been possible without the dedicated team of B&W employees driving these initiatives behind the scenes. I would like to thank all of our employees for your continued efforts in moving these innovations forward and also supporting our customer projects both domestically and abroad while working safely and providing the highest quality performance and operational success.

In addition to thanking our employees, we also want to extend our appreciation to our valued customers, shareholders, and trusted partners for the continued support and belief in our company. Our commitment in driving innovation forward is central to B&W's mission, and we look forward to working with you and building upon our accomplishments in the years to come.

With that, I will now turn the call back over to Louisa, who will set up your questions. Louisa?

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad now. When preparing to ask your question, please ensure that your headset is unmuted locally before speaking. We'll pause briefly while questions are now being registered. Our first question today comes from Aaron Spichella of Craig Hallam. Aaron, please go ahead when you're ready.

Sure. Yeah, I'd be happy to. Thanks, Aaron, first of all, for joining today. So, the kickoff project, which we announced, was obviously the engineering study and phase, and it's small revenues for us, probably roughly a million for that phase of the project overall. The intent would be that that's complete here in probably third, early fourth quarter, and finalizing that by year end with the client.

We anticipate once they move past that phase, if they move into the full project phase of the project, which is a 75-megawatt biomass facility, Our efforts in this regard on this project will be more focused towards the decarbonization aspect of that plant and site. So the Solbright technologies will be positioned well there for that, and we're excited about that opportunity. Ballpark, if we were to move to full project phase, we think about the revenues being somewhere in the 90 to 100 million-ish range, plus or minus, depending on exact scope and finalizing that particular contract. And that probably would be something that would be, if we get to that range or that step, would be a booking that we would realize somewhere mid-next year, third quarter maybe, something like that.

But that's the exciting part. It's one of the early opportunities around our Solbright technology, and we're excited to see that move forward.

Got it. Thanks for the call there. And then maybe just a second, you know, can you just, on the backlog and kind of the guidance, can you just talk a little bit about the confidence you have in the second half and kind of reaching the guide, And then just, you know, you kind of laid out 850 million to a billion. Just any color on what areas, you know, drive that?

Yeah, no, I think I said 850 to a billion, but I want to clarify you're right. It 850 million so thanks for clarifying that But there obviously a number of projects that we have that we in negotiations on that are sizable projects in both thermal as well as in the clean energy technology that we involved in today Some of those, obviously, when we give a range, we're anticipating some of those to happen, and some may get pushed into early next year. But we've got a number of those projects that we're in negotiations on right now.

You know, from an internal planning perspective, we thought one or two of those may move into bookings more in the Q2, Q3, but they're slipping, you know, into Q3, Q4. And one or two of those may slip into next year. That's why we provide the range of the $850 to $1 billion. But, you know, we see a pathway to those opportunities, and, you know, we're in discussions and negotiations on those as we speak. So that's what gives us the confidence in those numbers. Hopefully that helps, but happy to answer more if I can.

No, you know, I think that's good. Thanks for taking the questions. Appreciate it. No problem. Thanks, Aaron. Appreciate it.

Thank you for your question, Aaron.

Our next question today comes from Rob Brown of Lake Street Capital Markets. Rob, please go ahead.

Yeah, well, combinations of all that. So it is more bullish because of the interactions that we're having, both on the Wyoming aspect and the Louisiana aspect initially on those two. There's excitement for us anyway, and I can't comment much further, but in and around discussions we're having in the oil and gas industry on potential projects using petroleum coke or pet coke as a fuel source as well too, plus a number of other projects. We're also seeing discussions, and we're moving into specific long-term planning around, as I mentioned in the call, scale-up from the initial medium-sized projects in both those locations, Louisiana and Wyoming, to large-sized units in both those locations. The need for hydrogen on both of those are much bigger than the medium units will provide, but the scale-up is in discussions right now, and we see pathways to move those forward a little bit.

Further, once we get the medium size up and running, so we've got, you know, pathway into large units and see visibility into those. We see visibility into other projects, like I said, in the oil and gas industry, as well as, you know, a few others that are around the world.

That's on, you know, I would call it, I'm saying immediate opportunities, meaning opportunities that we're actively engaged in. We're in early discussions on other projects, potentially in Europe and elsewhere, that give us confidence in those around our ability to get to those bookings and backlog that I mentioned. I'm sorry, our bookings and revenues that I mentioned on the call associated with BrightLoop. So, uniqueness for us is we're one of the only technologies that can leverage, A, a solid fuel aspect on a scale-up environment to produce hydrogen and also isolate the CO2.

The second aspect is we're unique in our abilities to be able to blend fuels on Brightloop. That really comes into play in these opportunities. If you look at, for example, in Wyoming, the possibility exists, and we're planning on introducing a mixture of biomass with, in that particular case, coal as a fuel source. That will, to your point, will allow us to leverage some of the IRA credits, 45D credits, or us or the customer, depending on how we finalize that. But still the drivers from the IRA standpoint to blend the biomass in with the coal to leverage those credits. And that's something that we're in dialogue and discussions right now directly with the customer, you know, to make a final determination there.

But ours is the only real technology that can have that dual blending. We'll be looking at, you know, similar aspects on either natural gas and biomass in other locations. And yet in other locations, it'll strictly be biomass, and yet in others, it'll be strictly natural gas. So we have that runway. When you look at, just to expand on that, I'm going to go a little bit further. When you look at our technology versus, say, steam methane reform or autothermal reform technologies, we're vastly different in the fact that we can produce hydrogen from natural gas, but our process using the chemical looping will actually, We create and isolate the CO2 on the front end of the process rather than in a very expensive post-combustion environment.

And SMR and ATR, by their definition, and the way the technology works, actually requires a post-combustion carbon capture, which is very expensive from a capital standpoint to be able to provide. So long term, we believe the market for hydrogen being produced from natural gas will remain strong for many, many, many, many years. And the fact that we can produce hydrogen from natural gas, but we automatically isolate CO2 for either other beneficial use or sequestration, puts us in a real competitive advantage from a cost profiling standpoint versus traditional SMR and ATR technology. So if you combine all of those elements together, it gives us confidence in our technology and where we see it going.

Yeah, we're seeing some opportunities in waste energy. It's still strong in the European market. UK, in particular, is still as strong for new-built projects. We're starting to see more demand, I think, which is great for our renewable services business and platform in Europe, where older plants are requiring upgrades and new services, either to expand their size or platform or just to I'm update to technologies and or various parts and services that traditionally B&W hadn't been involved in.

So we're seeing that as well, too, and we're – obviously, I think we tried to share that excitement in the release and on the call, but our renewable services group in Europe is doing a great job, and we're seeing the increase in revenues on that platform as well. So, we mentioned earlier, an announcement, I guess, late last year that we're involved in the Low Stock Project, which I think now is the largest in the United Kingdom presently from a plant size standpoint.

There will be others, and we're involved in discussions on some other projects as well, which would be potentially part of that backlog that we talked about, but clearly in our pipeline too.

I will add to that. No, that's good, Rob. I'll just add to it because I think it's important. We're starting to see early, early on, but we're starting to see a number of potential projects emerge in the U. S. as well in the waste energy segment, and that's exciting for us. And we're in discussions with a number of partners on those projects. But we're starting to see some early demand around waste energy here in the U. S. , and I think that's an exciting development. So I don't think we would see anything in any potential bookings until the latter part of 24 or early 25, somewhere in that neighborhood.

But those take time, obviously, to develop, but there's a number of them beginning to develop here in the U. S. , And I think that's exciting news for us. It's been a while. Anyway, I'll pause there. Thanks.

Thank you for your question. Our next question today comes from Brent Thalman of DA Davidson. Brent, please go ahead.

Yeah, no, we fully anticipate and expect it to be a strong margin uplift to B&W overall. As we mentioned, the different size platforms, rough order of magnitude, we're fully anticipating those to be in the 20% to 30% gross margin range on those new build projects that we're involved in. The other key piece that I mentioned, or tried to mention anyway, was that we also anticipate follow-on on an annual basis of about, call it 200,000 to 250,000 roughly, of additional revenues on per ton of hydrogen produced. So if we deployed several I don know 400 tons of hydrogen you could multiply that out times 250 a year in additional incremental revenues from follow parts services and particle and we fully anticipate that to be a much higher margin than the initial projects So hopefully that helps, but that's how we're thinking about it in terms of our future cash flows, and we wanted to reflect that in the call.

Some of those we've been selected for and we're in discussions on or negotiations in, contracts. Some of those are where we're down to, you know, us versus one other, and we're highly confident that that will come our way for, you know, either technology purposes, competitive purposes. You know, we've got strength in, if we go to some of the thermal projects and the fact that we provide union construction opportunities combined with our technologies, and, you know, we're involved in a couple projects on the thermal side that would require both the union construction and the technology component, and we're really in a strong position to provide that. And that, you know, and it's with customers that we've got, you know, also customers that we've got strong prior history and performing services and work for.

So those all give us the confidence that we can reach those backlog numbers, if that makes sense.

Yeah, as we mentioned, you know, on the solar side, we're starting to see, you know, for us, not the market. The market demand's been there, but we're starting to, you know, slowly pick up our share of opportunities. And, you know, as mentioned, you know, with what we have either been awarded, we just announced in July, or projects that were well in, you know, part of that A52 billion, but projects that we're well into discussions on, we fully intend and plan and should be able to announce at least $100 million in bookings on solar for the second half of 23, which would double from last year. There are more opportunities than that in the solar market on the community and utility scale.

Clearly, we are improving or working to improve the margins on those projects, primarily as we've expanded that business. And as I mentioned on the call, we're investing in some back office systems, as well as a critical part is more self-performance on those projects around those solar services. And so those are two areas that we're actively involved in and will continue to invest in. But we are seeing that growth on the solar opportunities. As we mentioned before, the key thing that we're seeing constantly as we get into these renewable energy projects, many at the state level and some of the state funding on the IRA require solar aspects as well as clean energy aspects and or CO2 sequestration.

And some of those are opportunities long-term that we're starting to see that would blend some of those services where we're pulling together solar in conjunction with, you know, possible other green energy or clean energy projects in the marketplace. So, we'll see that in full probably next year more as the IRA kicks in fully, but a lot of the developers that we're in discussions with are starting to inquire or we're answering RFPs and other aspects in and around some of those combined technologies. But there's a ramp on solar. We've got to improve the margins. We know that, and we're working behind the scenes to do that overall. I should have mentioned on the call and didn't, but I'll take the opportunity to put it here so it's in the script.

But we are, you know, based on, this is beyond solar, but based on, you know, decisions and actions that we've taken over the past couple years to help create more optimization efficiencies in the business, you know, we're working to take out roughly another, you know, 15 million of costs out of our platform that would be, you know, more incremental to whatever targets we put in. We'll start out in 2024, and those are just further optimizations based on actions that we have taken previously through a number of different areas. So we're excited, and I wanted to point to that because it's important that we continue to announce and discuss that we're constantly trying to optimize the business as we continue to invest in future growth of the platform and the company.

So we're looking to do both.

Thank you for your question, Brent. Our final question today comes from Alex Rigel of Be Riley Securities. Alex, please go ahead.

Yeah, we have a great question, Alex. By the way, thanks for joining. We have a number of-I won't get specific because obviously we're in negotiations, but we have a number of projects out that we're involved in. Some of those are larger projects that are in the, you know, $150 to $200 million range that we're involved in, both thermal and in our, you know, I would say thermal and renewable energy to keep it It's very simple, primarily. There's some smaller ones in environmental, but the larger ones that I'm referring to are in renewable and thermal both. And we're in discussions on this project, but some of those are new build opportunities in waste to energy and biomass to energy.

Some of those are continued upgrades, enhancements, and conversions in the thermal sector. But we have several large projects that are in the $100 million-plus range. I guess a couple that could be in the $200 million-plus range. That would be potentially part of that scale-up from the $568, $52 billion.

Yeah, no, it would – the backlog would come in, obviously, in timing of EBITDA, adjusted EBITDA impact this year will be greatly dependent on when that backlog hits, right? Obviously, we're – from a cost standpoint, we have to get those projects in and going. Obviously, some will happen before the end of the year, and some will happen more in November, December. So, there's always a timing issue there around that. It would allow us to really focus on growth opportunities in 2024. The offset to that would only be, as we mentioned on the call, obviously, we continue to invest in these new technologies, BrightLoop, as well as biomass with carbon or oxycombustion or carbon capture associated with that, as well as some of the new environmental We also have to balance the expense and spend towards investing in the future growth of the platform to support those new technologies versus the run rate EBITDA in the business.

But try to indicate that in the call as well, that we balance those two. But clearly on a site, we've got growth that we see. Obviously, getting the backlog in would support that some of that backlog will be spread over 24, 25, 26. Some of that backlog will actually be 25, 26, 27. So from a revenue timing standpoint, they'll vary depending on the specific project on the revenue impact and the timing of that revenues. But I don't know, Lou.

Yeah, I think you'll see, Alex, when you look at the queue, the backlog runoff is about 60% of that $560, $570 million runoff this year, and then about 30% next year, and then, as Kenny said, the rest thereafter. So that's the immediate backlog that we have literally under contract. And then there will be additional backlog, and then we don't include a substantial amount in backlog for the parts business because that's kind of a book-and-build business, so we don't really put much of that, consider that into backlog. So that gives us the confidence of hitting these numbers for 23 and beyond.

Alex, thanks.

Thank you for your question. Thank you. That concludes the question and answer session. We have no further questions. Thank you, Kenny and Lou, for your prepared remarks. I will now pass the call back to Sharon Books for any closing remarks.

Thank you for joining us. That concludes our conference call. A replay will be available for a limited time on our website later today. Thank you all for joining today's Babcock & Wilcox second quarter 2023 earnings conference call. Have a good rest of your day. You may now disconnect your lines.